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Thursday, July 25, 2024
Trump Calls on FBI Head Wray To Resign for comment on Biden's Competency...
,,transcript
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offices they hold their political party or was it simply people of a high
19:50
profile uh well a couple things first the um
19:59
the images that we've recovered so far from I can't remember which of his various devices were appear to be what
20:07
we call cached images from searches of news articles so if you do a news
20:12
article search of course image you if there are photos on it those photos get
20:17
stored automatically in your cache as opposed to me searching or him searching for a specific person and getting up
20:24
images of that person uh as far as the pictures that are like that
20:29
there's doesn't seem to be a whole lot of Rhyme or Reason to it so far other
20:34
than these are you know all prominent public people but they they cover both parties they cover both um
20:43
uh us people and even some foreign uh public officials uh so that
20:50
part doesn't appear to that that one repository of information doesn't appear to be overly indicative of motive other
20:57
than interest in in public figures but that could be just because he was reading news stories so we're still
21:03
trying to drill into that that's why all these outstanding uh legal process returns
21:09
that we're waiting on for various accounts platforms Etc you know any one
21:14
of them could be a one that would have very indicative very important information if I could permitted one
21:20
very short additional question chairman uh from that any indication of any other particular Target that is someone who uh
21:28
was not just sort of generically the subject of the searches you described but for which there was more of an
21:34
interest than others there's the information I just described at the moment does not appear
21:41
particularly indicative of targeting um in its own right uh but again that dot
21:48
once we get other information could connect in a way that might be more meaningful but uh I really I'm sharing
21:54
that piece of information with this committee and with the American public but I think it's important that we put
21:59
down a qualification this does not appear to be some kind of Target list or something like that this is cached
22:05
images from running searches of news stories um and again there's nothing at
22:10
the moment that there's no pattern from that particular piece of information that is overly remarkable so far thank
22:17
you thank you chairman G y's back gentleman from California is recognized Mr director you previously told us that
22:22
you consider the situation on the southern border to be a massive security threat to our country is is that still
22:28
still your assessment I I stand by my prior testimony and in fact um just uh
22:34
in the last uh month or so um we've you
22:39
know conducted a significant uh series of arrests I say we our joint terrorism task forces working with ice of a number
22:46
of individuals uh with suspected International terrorism ties and I have
22:51
also been very vocal about the fact that U since and this is really since the last time I appeared uh for you uh that
23:00
we are increasingly concerned about the possibility not just of a of a foreign
23:05
terrorist inspired attack which is very much very much a concern but the even
23:11
the potential for a coordinated foreign terrorist attack perhaps like what we've seen uh against the concert hall in
23:19
Russia for example but just here in the United States well the the the 19 suicide bombers overstate visas were
23:25
responsible for 3,000 American death sign on 911 what's your best estimate of
23:31
the number of foreign terrorists who are now in our country I don't I mean I don't know that
23:36
I could give you that number uh what I can tell you is uh we have lots of
23:42
foreign terrorism related investigations uh but that doesn't mean that all of them came in you know
23:48
illegally or anything anything like that it seems to me the the the simplest Act of terrorism would be for for uh dozens
23:55
of of gorillas to attack low security highdensity venue use for example uh Friday night High School football games
24:01
all across the country at the same hour uh with bombs and automatic uh uh
24:07
weapons that would produce thousands of casualties from coast to coast in a matter of minutes uh How likely is such
24:13
a scenario well what you're describing uh would require of course a lot of
24:19
coordination uh but what I will tell you and I think you're on to a particularly important point from my perspective
24:24
which is that uh unlike the 911 attacks which again I was in FBI headquarters on
24:30
the day of 9/11 and so I remember it vividly and I've spent plenty of time in the period after that in my prior
24:37
positions engaged with the families and the victims but uh what we're seeing more and more with the foreign terrorist
24:44
threat and frankly also the domestic uh terrorism threat is a focus on kind of like what you're talking about what I
24:50
would call soft targets which is really for the American people's benefit just intelligence Community speak for where
24:57
everyday people live their every lives what terrorist groups have now infiltrated our country that you're
25:03
tracking well in I don't know that I would say infiltrated we have uh
25:08
investigations as we speak that relate to Isis and its Affiliates we have
25:14
investigations as we speak that relate to Al-Qaeda we have investigations as we speak that relate to al-shabab we have
25:23
investigations as we speak that relate to U the Iranian proxy
25:28
Hezbollah uh and so the frankly even the irgc Cs Force itself what what foreign
25:34
criminal uh gangs uh are now in our country that you're most concerned with
25:41
well foreign criminal gangs I mean I we obviously have investigations a lot of Investigations into you know gangs like
25:49
MS13 for example uh and some of its counterparts uh although I think if you
25:55
were to talk to most Chiefs and sheriffs like I'm doing every week uh we
26:01
shouldn't underestimate uh how prevalent neighborhood gangs are really a lot of the gang violence I'm concerned about
26:08
those that we've allowed in through the southern border and what threat they are now posing uh uh do you believe that the
26:14
vetting performed at the Southwest border is adequate to ensure uh that aliens with terrorist or or criminal
26:19
gang ties are not being released into the United States well I it's not really me for me
26:26
to speak to the vetting what I would tell you is that uh you have to deal with it once they're released in the
26:31
United States and and one of the concerns that I have uh which I touched on briefly in my opening um is there's
26:40
been a lot of focus on the number of known or suspected terrorists encountered at the border and that
26:45
number has increased over the last five or six years and that should be of concern but frankly to me the bigger
26:51
concern is individuals who who weren't uh either weren't on the watch
26:59
list at the time they came in because there wasn't information known yet that ties them to terrorism and it's only
27:05
after they get in that some new piece of information developed somewhere overseas and now we know B we've been warned that
27:13
that they basically vet against a blank sheet of paper if they they don't have a record in this country uh border patrol
27:18
probably doesn't have uh any any uh record there releasing in the country and you find out later of of of the
27:25
dangers or or if they use fake documents and there aren't Biometrics to to uh you know connect them you know sometimes I
27:32
think sometimes there are people who come in who because of the nature of the thread information that put somebody on
27:40
the watch list there wasn't you know fingerprints from the person at the time because not every piece of intelligence
27:45
comes with fingerprints so then the guy comes in using fake ID and of course and
27:51
there's no reason to connect them and of course the 2 million Goda ways you know absolutely nothing about exactly well I
27:57
don't
I don't know about absolutely nothing because we may come across them
in other things I mean one of the key parts of our Collective defense
here uh
28:04
is that we work with 800,000 uh sworn law enforcement across the country and we train them on the
28:10
right questions to ask and things like that so that we can build in additional eyes and ears if they you know do a
28:16
traffic stop or whatever happens to be we run a greater chance of leveraging all that to pick up people who may have
28:23
slipped through the cracks gentlemen you back the gentleman from California just recognized
28:29
director we're about a 100 days until the election Russia has attacked our
28:34
democracy in past elections are they seeking to do it in this
28:40
one uh we assess that the Russian government continues to want to
28:47
influence uh and in various ways interfere with our democracy uh with our
28:52
electoral process in fact uh just in the last few weeks we ounc a significant
28:59
disruption of a uh generative AI enhanced uh social media you know bot
29:07
Farm essentially of the Russians uh that was design designed to be an influence
29:13
operation uh and some of the fake fictitious profiles of uh of those Bots
29:19
purported to be us persons so they're still at it uh we've seen that in
29:24
election cycle after election cycle do the Russians have a preferred candidate
29:29
uh I'm not sure that I could speak to that uh here but certainly what I would tell you is it's not just the Russians
29:35
uh
and I think that's important for people to know too there's a lot of
attention to the Russians as there should be um but we also know uh you
may
29:43
recall that uh in 2020 uh director ratliffe and I announced uh an effort by
29:49
the Iranians to try to interfere and more recently we've had indictments uh
29:55
related to China 34 Chinese MPS officers
30:01
creating fictitious personas posting false information online uh full of
30:08
narratives designed to sew divis iness Discord undermine us and I'm talking about narratives that they were pushing
30:15
again purporting to be Americans but actually Chinese MPS officers uh for example trashing any suggestion that
30:23
covid came from a lab leak or uh trashing US law enforcement on the
30:29
occasion of the anniversary of George Floyd's um death and shifting to the
30:36
attempted assassination on the former president I want to make it clear in America violence has never been the
30:43
answer not on a certain day in January or a recent day in July and I just want
30:49
to go through the shooting just briefly with you how many armed officers were
30:56
within the perimeter just B Park figure you know that really goes to the security posture which is the subject of
31:03
the inspector the DHS inspector General's review and the outside panel independent panel that's would you say
31:10
probably more than 100 though I have to believe that number but I don't again I don't have that number at my fingertips
31:16
our focus is on the shooter and and his attack and the shooter was able to get eight shots off before he was killed
31:23
that's what it would appear yes type of weap weapon used by the shooter was an assault rifle was an AR style rifle so
31:29
that means one trigger pull one round is that right essentially do you like to shoot
31:35
do I yeah yeah yes do you know the difference between an AR and a bolt
31:41
action rifle I'm not going to try it I said here and engage on sort of firearms expertise but um but I fired a variety
31:48
of weapons but had the shooter used a bolt action rifle would that have been one uh one trigger pole one round that's
31:55
my understanding and there would there have have been more well on an assault rifle
32:01
trigger pole round trigger pole round bolt action non- assault rifle what's the difference is it faster
32:08
slower he was able to get more rounds off more quickly than he would have with other kinds of
32:14
weapons and that's my point is that we can add additional resources to
32:21
protect political candidates and we should the people who went to that rally deserved to be protected from gun
32:28
violence just like the students at Parkland deserve to be protected from gun violence just like the babies at
32:34
Sandy Hook deserve to be protected from gun violence so we'll devote devote more
32:40
resources we've added a presidential candidate who is also now protected but if we're being honest with
32:46
ourselves we have armed this country to the teeth and we have allowed the most
32:53
dangerous people to have access to the most dangerous weapons
32:58
I
say that as a parent of a seven-year-old and a 5-year-old and a
2-year-old the two oldest who have done multiple Mass shooter drills in
their
33:05
classrooms I say that as a brother to two police officers who walk a very violent beat and I say that as an
33:11
elected official who believes that my colleagues deserve to be as safe as I deserve to be when we are at political
33:18
rallies and so we really need to step back and think if we allow these weapons to be in our country can we truly
33:25
protect our elected officials and can we truly protect most importantly our
33:30
children in the Next Generation Now yield back gentlemen yields back it is good to
33:37
have Mr Massie back with us today some of us had a chance to go to Kentucky over the last few weeks and visit with
33:43
Thomas and his family and hear all kinds of wonderful stories about Rhonda amazing amazing lady um Gentle Spirit
33:50
and um we are glad to have Mr Massie back with us and the next five minutes Belong To You Congressman thank you
33:56
chairman uh director Ray how many counter snipers were present at the rally that day and which of the counter
34:03
snipers took the shot that took out the would be assassin uh I don't I don't have the
34:09
number of counter snipers I know it was a secret service counter sniper who who took the uh the shot that uh eliminated
34:17
the shooter um we've conducted a number of interviews including of of him so not
34:24
was it one of the two that we see in the videos on top of the roof or was it a different location that I'm afraid I
34:30
don't have that at my fingertips here okay you mentioned that U the wouldbe Assassin bought a 5- foot ladder you
34:37
have a credit card evidence of that but it looks like on the scene there was a larger ladder that he might have used do
34:43
you know which ladder he used to get to the roof and do you have possession of that 5- foot ladder and the other ladder
34:50
and do you know how the taller ladder got to the scene so this whole business
34:56
about the ladder is something we're Drilling into more um we do have possession uh of the U the 5- foot
35:03
ladder that he purchased um close in time to his attempted
35:08
assassination uh that we traced the purchase of that ladder from a receipt a bloodied receipt uh
35:17
that he had on him at the time his body was recovered on the roof um uh we do
35:23
not yet know for sure how exactly he got up on the roof we're looking at you know
35:29
various forensic pieces to try to kind of piece that together so more to come on that do um do you know where the 5-ft
35:35
ladder was found or retrieved was near the roof or was it in still in his vehicle uh neither um I I I don't have
35:44
it in front of me but I know that it was not uh I know that it was not on scene and I know that it was not in his
35:50
vehicle uh but I can we can Circle back to you and get that um is there any
35:56
evidence at all that that he may have been in contact with somebody else before this occurred that may have had
36:02
any prior knowledge or may have helped him plan this event well needless to say
36:08
that that is a question that we're intensely focused on because that would obviously be incredibly meaningful at so
36:14
far underline so far we have not found any evidence uh of any accomplice or
36:22
co-conspirators a foreign or domestic and you're using geolocation data to see
36:28
if his cell phone was near another cell phone I presume right we're doing lots of different kinds of cellular analysis
36:35
uh geolocation stuff looking at his accounts uh he he from everything we've
36:40
seen um which is consistent with what we've learned in interviews you know a
36:46
lot of people describe him as a loner that does kind of fit with what we're seeing in his devices you know his his
36:52
list of contacts for example uh is very short you know compared to what you
36:58
would normally see from from most people so doesn't appear to be a whole lot of interaction between him uh you know face
37:05
to face or digital with a lot of people okay thank you that doesn't mean there's not any and that's why we're drilling
37:11
into we're trying to talk to anybody who's had any engagement with him whatsoever digital you know in person
37:16
classmates co-workers right Etc appreciate that and now I want to talk about another possible assassination
37:23
attempt and I'll start by showing a video of President Biden and this is from Recently this is in the last month
37:30
if the we can play that Gallows erected to hang the vice president of Mike
37:35
Pence I think it's fair to say it's one of the darkest days in the history of America okay and he's he's referring to
37:43
January 6 were there Gallows erected to hang Mike Pence as the President says
37:51
here uh I'm not aware of any physical Gallows I can't remember whether from a
37:56
demonstration persp perspective there may not have been some um um kind of replica or or symbol of
38:03
something like that that's that's my impression can we show uh can you raise that up so you can see it it looks like
38:10
there there was some kind of prop that was built the the construction doesn't
38:15
look like it lends itself to actually hanging somebody it's more of a prop I
38:20
think as you suggested that was erected on January 6th uh but if the president
38:26
were correct that the these Gallows were erected to hang Mike Pence that would be
38:32
a very serious allegation wouldn't it I would take it very seriously yes is
38:38
has anybody been arrested or do you have any leads in conjunction with the
38:43
erection of this um Galls we had a picture here on the screen if you can show it uh again it was just up there
38:51
there was there's an individual here who's seen on near this these Gallows is
38:57
he been arrested have you identified this person you know I don't I don't know
39:02
that I could speak to this specific person or or the uh The Gallows that are pictured on the image you know we have
39:08
had I think 850 people who have plad guilty uh to federal crimes uh related
39:14
to January 6 and I think uh you know another 180 I think it is convicted uh
39:20
at trials um so I just I can't be sure and some of them merely for going into
39:26
the capital but here the president suggests that individual intended to hang vice president Pence U which is
39:35
seems like kind of a wild claim myself given the construction of those Gallows but if we are to take him seriously or
39:42
even if we aren't we're let me just finish by saying this if you have no leads or
39:47
you're not sure if anybody who erected those Gallows was arrested or is being
39:52
investigated uh you know were there any confidential
39:58
human uh sources involved from the FBI or any other agency in the erection of
40:04
that prop those Gallows I'm not aware of anything like that all right thank you I yield back gentleman yields back uh GLE
40:12
lady from Washington is recognized thank you Mr chairman welcome director Ray political violence of any kind is
40:18
dangerous unlawful and totally unacceptable just as we all watched and then unequivocally condemned the
40:26
attempted assassin ination attempt on our former president I wish that we could all come together to unequivocally
40:33
condemn the act of political violence on January 6th instead of Defending props
40:39
that were used that were harmful dangerous props of gallows attempting to
40:45
show what people wanted to do to vice president Pence extremists attempted to
40:51
subvert our democracy and the worst assault on the US capital since the War of 1812 many of us were trapped in the
40:58
gallery that day we feared we would not make it out insurrectionists were chasing down former speaker Nancy Pelosi
41:05
and then vice president Mike Pence and I myself have been the direct Target of political violence when an armed man
41:12
with a gun showed up at my door threatened me and my family and we
41:17
actually ended up having to move our home so I understand the increased tenor of
41:24
political violence that is racking our country it has been on the rise fermented by violent and dehumanizing
41:31
rhetoric from Top public officials including the former president and members of Congress sadly and bolstered
41:39
by the proliferation of easily accessible guns including assault style
41:44
weapons all of this violence is unacceptable and I wholeheartedly condemn it I just hope we condemn all of
41:51
the violence not just one or two incidents Mr Ray today I want to focus
41:57
on on the role of the FBI and the need for the bureau to remain politically neutral and
42:02
independent the FBI cannot and should not be subject to the whims of any
42:07
president the majority apparently doesn't think that the FBI needs to be politically neutral and independent they
42:13
want an FBI subordinate to the president not accountable to the American people that is one part of a larger plan to
42:21
undermine our democracy to remove the checks and balances that have protected us and ultimately to subvert our
42:27
freedoms that agenda promulgated by the former president his Loyalists and their
42:33
Mega allies is called project 2025 it is publicly available online I encourage
42:40
everyone who's watching this to Google it it includes plans to undermine every part of our government including the FBI
42:48
Trump's project 2025 agenda says that the director of the FBI must not be
42:54
independent of politics but instead must do whatever the president orders under
43:00
Trump's project 2025 Trump loyalists would undermine the non-political and
43:05
independent structure of the FBI project 2025 openly calls on the next
43:11
conservative Administration to support quote a vast expansion of the number of
43:16
political appointees in every office across the doj especially the FBI and so
43:23
Mr Ray given your extensive experience as a law enforcement professional and doj across multiple Republican and
43:29
Democratic administrations why do you think it's important that the FBI maintain political independence from the
43:38
president I think the FBI is and needs to stay independent and that means
43:44
protecting American people without fear or favor upholding the Constitution and the rule of law and it means following
43:50
the facts wherever they lead no matter who likes it and I add that last part because the essence of Independence
43:58
and objectivity is not that an investigation is going to always yield the result you
44:04
want our independence and objectivity can't only be respected when you like the
44:09
outcome that's the very essence of objectivity sometimes you're going to like the result sometimes you're not
44:14
going to like the result that applies to everyone including us any number of times we're disappointed and frustrated
44:20
by the results of our investigations but the alternative is an erosion of the
44:25
rule of law where the only thing that distinguishes uh one investigation for
44:30
another is power and that's what you see in some of authoritarian countries around the world so I'm not familiar
44:37
with this particular no I I I didn't ask you project 2025 thing I don't know anything about it but I what I can tell
44:43
you is from my perspective the FBI needs to be uh functioning as independent
44:48
doesn't
mean it's not part of the executive branch it doesn't mean the FBI
director doesn't serve at the pleasure of the president but it does mean
that
44:54
the way we do our work has to be OB has to be yeah thank you I have I have another question about the role of
44:59
Attorneys at the FBI office of general counsel um how do we protect that
45:06
work I'm sorry could you repeat the question the role uh what role do the attorneys at the FBI office of General
45:12
Council play and ensuring that the bureau respects the constitutional rights of American citizens how do we protect that
45:17
work so uh the in my experience the lawyers and the office of general
45:23
counsel uh play an incredibly important role in ensur uring that our agents have
45:29
their questions uh about how to comply with the law and conducting their work answered uh and ensuring that we conduct
45:36
our work in the right way which means scrupulously adhering to the laws and the rules that apply to us I just wanted
45:43
to say before I yield Mr chairman that the the project 2025 also eliminates the FBI's office of general counsel in-house
45:50
lawyers who are responsible for that role I appreciate your Indulgence and I yield back J lady yields back gentlemen
45:56
from Wisconsin's Rec yeah thank you Mr chairman uh I think it was when you were here December of last year um Mr Ray
46:03
that uh you said blinking lights were going off in regards to the southern border and what is happening down there
46:10
um has the Border situation improved in terms of your assessment with the security of Americans since you were
46:16
last here in December well I guess a couple things and I appreciate appreciate the question
46:23
so first the the blinking L lights comment that I made uh refers more broadly to the threat environment that
46:30
I'm seeing as FBI director across a wide range of threats contributing to that in
46:36
a variety of ways are the threats that emanate from the border so it's not not a comment just on the border issues it's
46:43
it's the threat environment that we face more broadly in my experience in law enforcement um I am increasingly
46:50
concerned that uh foreign terrorists could seek to exploit vulnerability
46:58
uh at our Southwest border or at other ports of Entry or in other aspects of
47:03
our immigration system uh to facilitate an attack here in the United States I
47:09
think that is something we have to be concerned about there's been a lot of focus on numbers numbers of this numbers
47:14
of that and I understand that but uh as I think was referenced in an earlier
47:19
question it doesn't take very many foreign terrorists to be a real problem we had
47:26
19 hijackers responsible for the 9/11 attacks uh and we just not that long ago
47:32
had a case some of the members of the committee will remember where we charged an individual for trying to smuggle
47:38
individuals in to uh assassinate former President Bush are are you concerned
47:44
that um the border patrol Chief former border patrol Chief Rodney Scott said that he was very he was concerned about
47:50
very very minuscule data that they're receiving so there's all this um we are
47:56
told that um illegal aliens are vetted against databases but oftentimes they're
48:03
doing Biometrics as they come into this country but not looking behind it in their home countries does that concern
48:09
you when there's not a review done in the Home Country well we certainly need as much
48:14
help as we can get from the countries of origin uh these people when I say origin not just where they come from originally
48:20
but countries they've come through and the biometric enrollment piece uh is of course an important one we have
48:26
situations where even if are we doing a thorough enough job of reviewing them
48:32
their actions and their lives in their home countries before they came here well I mean we need more help uh
48:39
from our foreign Partners uh there's no question about that uh and I think that's an important part of how about
48:45
our domestic Partners like the CIA and others that are supposed to protect us so uh there's been a lot of discussion
48:52
uh of course over the last several years about the uh the pivot to what it's
48:58
called the hard targets right the understandable Focus which I support uh of of focusing on the threat posed by
49:05
China and Russia and Iran uh but with that comes if you look at for example
49:11
the withdrawal from Afghanistan you we start to lose sources of information
49:16
about foreign terrorist threats from overseas and that is that is a concern to me yeah my time's running out um has
49:23
vice president Harris met with you in regards to the Border well I've been in meetings uh with that
49:30
that have included the vice president uh that have in different ways touched on B has she specifically asked you for a
49:36
meeting in regards to um the threat that is at the border you know I'm not going
49:42
to
get into sort of specific meetings but I can tell you that I've been in
meetings that have included among other people the vice president that
touch on
49:48
border security issues did she ask you questions about what you thought needed
49:53
to be done in regards to reducing this threat to the American people you know I I really can't get into specific
50:01
conversations is support for president Trump a security concern within the FBI
50:06
I'm sorry I couldn't hear it is support for president Trump a security concern amongst your employees no is objection
50:14
to the covid-19 vaccine a security threat not from my
50:20
perspective um who improved the what is termed the Trump questionnaire within the FBI that was done by
50:27
siis Dena Perkins Jeffrey ventry were behind it who was responsible for that and did
50:34
you know that there was a trump questionnaire out there so the document
50:40
you're asking about uh is an interview outline that we only recently learned
50:45
about and that my view is completely inappropriate I asked my team to get to the bottom of what happen and to ensure
50:51
that doesn't happen again and I've learned that it's not an FBI form that
50:57
its use was isolated that it was created not by an FBI employee but by an outside
51:02
contractor and that individual is no longer affiliated with the FBI but we are sending what we have found to the
51:09
office of Inspector General to and we'll cooperate of course with anything they Mr chairman I'll just close with this um
51:15
we keep hearing about these isolated examples whether it's Richmond Catholics this
51:21
instance when is it isn't it a pattern I you back G you
51:27
was back Mr Korea thank you Mr chairman and uh director Ray welcome again to
51:33
this committee and I want to thank you and your agents for good job you're doing to protect Americans
51:40
um earlier this week I was part of the group that went out to visit Butler
51:45
Pennsylvania Homeland Security members um I agree with my colleagues
51:50
that have said violence has no part in our democracy and I trust you will and
51:56
investigate the events surrounding July 13th early I'm going to ask you a question um
52:03
hope you keep it in mind as your investigation proceeds which is who's in
52:09
charge who's in charge at a campaign rally setting it up secret service or a
52:17
campaign and I asked this question because when I was there had a couple of
52:23
law enforcement individuals alluding to that question as well they gave me an example they said
52:32
um if a secret service says you need to set up a line of dump trucks behind the
52:38
stage to serve to protect the candidate and the campaign says that's
52:45
bad Optics who ends up winning the debate so
52:51
my question is who's in charge and as you investigate this crime scene
52:57
hope you asked the locally elected officials I spoke to a County
53:03
Supervisor local police and Sheriff they all had information they wanted us to
53:09
know to relay we just didn't have the opportunity to sit down and talk to them
53:15
um there was a lot of concern that they weren't given enough time to prepare for this rally they thought they were things
53:23
that could have been done better and ultimately what I keep thinking what I keep coming
53:29
back to is question who's in charge at these rallies I think it's an important
53:35
one because we have an election right around the corner Pennsylvania Butler
53:41
these areas Battleground states around the country will continue to be areas where our candidates both sides will
53:49
show up and the threats will continue to be there so I hope director a that
53:55
you'll keep that statement in mind as you continue to investigate this crime
54:00
scene well I I appreciate the question uh I will tell you that we've conducted
54:06
well over 400 interviews but we have many more still to conduct uh and as is Not Unusual an investigation I'm sure
54:13
there
will be situations where we have to go back to people we've already
interviewed with follow-up questions um and our interviews cover a
54:20
wide range of people I do think it's important to make sure uh that the committee and and the American people
54:27
understand uh the scope of our investigation versus the scope of others our investigation is focused on the
54:33
shooter and his attack uh there is of course uh and I understand completely
54:39
why uh two separate there are two separate reviews one by the DHS
54:45
Inspector General and the other by this outside independent panel that's been announced that are focused on the
54:51
security posture the adequacy of the security posture at the rally Secret Service
54:57
decision making and actions and things like that and so I certainly understand why there are all those questions um but
55:03
those are those are in scope of those two other reviews and of course whatever you know Congress uh chooses to do our
55:11
investigation though because of our interviews of people who are on the scene will relate to that in some ways
55:17
and we're going to share whatever we learn that's relevant with those other reviews director a my last minute that I
55:23
have I'm going to flip quickly to your good job job resources earlier this year
55:29
in the Appropriations Committee you testified that you were for 2024 your budget was 500 million below
55:37
what you needed to sustain your 2023 efforts few minutes ago you talked about
55:45
foreign terrorists the last few weeks I know information has emerged that
55:50
information came from fisa information that was able to be
55:55
collected overseas on these possible terrorist threats what we have here today is a
56:03
domestic terrorist what looks to be a lone wolf your statements there's nothing
56:10
really there that would have tipped anybody off to this
56:15
individual is that what I'm hearing from you well I don't know that i' go quite that far because we're still
56:21
investigating uh a lot related to the shooter it does appear so far that we're seeing Less in his my six seconds I
56:28
would just say I would ask that you let us know what resources you need to
56:35
protect the American public and our candidates in our democratic system I I would I appreciate the question I would
56:40
just say this we are in as I've said consistently today and for quite some time now we are in an elevated threat
56:47
environment covering a wide range of threats and the FBI is Central to protecting American people from those
56:54
threats and state and local law enforcement M who depend on us every
57:00
day uh rely on us for all sorts of services data bases forensic support
57:06
training I could go on and on and on and a lot of those departments unlike the FBI have had a hard time recruiting and
57:13
so this is not a time to pull back on our funding because we're going to leave our brothers and sisters and state local
57:19
law enforcement twisting in the wind and and then by extension the American people were all collectively sworn to
57:26
protect thank you and Mr chair I yield jentan Yi's back gentleman from Texas recognized thank you chairman thank you
57:32
director Ray for being here um when did you last speak with President
57:39
Biden I don't have the exact date but it's been certainly since the uh you
57:44
know
since the shooting so you have spoken to the president since the
assassination attempt on President Trump's life yes sir and what was the
57:51
mental state of the president we had a perfectly professional conversation
57:57
um and are you uh do you have any scheduled briefings of the president uh
58:03
upcoming uh not at the moment specifically scheduled now um in 2016
58:08
and 2015 top FBI officials uh infamously texted about quote their insurance policy to make sure Trump was never
58:14
elected or inaugurated as president have any FBI agents texted emailed or expressed disappointment that Trump
58:19
survived the assassination assassination attempt or otherwise editorialized about the assassination
58:24
attempt uh I don't know about any agents uh there have been uh at least two
58:30
instances I think or one instance of an individual uh who posted something uh
58:36
that I consider outrageous and totally inappropriate um and unacceptable and
58:44
that individual has been referred to our Inspection Division which is the arm our
58:49
sort
of internal affairs investigatory arm that that does the disciplinary
process okay will you report back to this committee any other incidents I
58:56
I'll
do my best to to share information with the committee uh you testified
earlier that the FBI maintains high standards irrespective of of
so-called
59:03
diversity efforts um is it true that in December of 2016 former director Comey lowered the passing standards for phase
59:09
one uh allowing an influx of previously unqualified applicants to continue in the hiring process who normally would
59:15
have been stopped back in December of 2016 yeah I can't I can't speak to
59:20
director comey's um what were the changes I can tell you that that at least since I've been director changes
59:26
that we have made to we're stand on a specific question were standards changed phase one this is a specific part of the
59:32
process were they changed in 2016 well I don't recall if they were changed in 2016 obviously I started as your
59:38
question presupposes after that what I can tell you is since that time we have made changes to various phases of the
59:45
process but none of them this is important none of them lowered the standards in fact if anything they
59:51
actually increased are you are you familiar with reporting that we have and we've asked questions to you about this
59:56
I'm
not sure the result of the questions that a more to more quote easily
accommodate a larger pool of available applicants FBI special agent
hiring
1:00:02
standards have been relaxed and requirements measurably lowered this according to a group of former agents
1:00:08
who have testified about this and written a report and submitted it to Congress in addition specifically uh
1:00:14
minority uh people with 20-year careers one in particular a minority served for more than 20 years uh wrote in this
1:00:20
report and submitted to Congress saying that these standards were in fact lowered and that in fact if you were
1:00:25
high in you were moved off of hiring if you put quality above these kinds of Dei
1:00:31
requirements do you reject this report and do you have comments on this report
1:00:36
I haven't read aware of the I'm aware of the report I know that I've read every detail of it but I can tell you that the
1:00:42
claim that we have lowered our standards to be less selective and less competitive is not accurate so so do you
1:00:49
believe
these former agents are lying to Congress when they submit a report to
Congress stipulating and suggesting otherwise are you saying that they
are
1:00:55
lying I'm they're mistaken okay but they're affirmatively on the record they're telling us and submitting a
1:01:00
report to Congress saying that those facts are directly in contradicting what you're testifying here today so just
1:01:05
want to be clear so we know we're saying that they are submitting uh evidence to our record to the contrary that you say
1:01:12
is untruthful I I encounter all the time when I when I travel around the country and have conversations with our agents
1:01:19
and I one of the things I try to do is have meetings with some of the longer serving agents without executive man
1:01:26
that's my only question and my point here's implication is it's untruthful so I I need to move on I got one minute
1:01:32
left are you familiar with the case of Paul Ed harlo she's a 75-year-old elderly woman from Massachusetts with a
1:01:37
debilitating medical condition um she was prosecuted for violating the face act and sentenced to two years in prison
1:01:43
she has to go to Texas in two weeks she was praying at an abortion clinic in Washington DC the FBI interrogated
1:01:50
investigated her do you think it is appropriate for a 75-year-old woman who is praying at a clinic in DC to be put
1:01:56
in prison for 2 years for that activity do just simple question do you think that's appropriate I I'm not familiar
1:02:01
with
the specific case you're not familiar with that case it's been
significantly in the headlines but so but you don't know how to comment
on
1:02:07
that
case that it's appropriate for a 75y old woman to be put in prison for
two years for praying at a clinic again I'm not going since I'm not
familiar
1:02:13
with
the case I don't want to start weighing in because I don't know all the
facts but what I can tell you is that when it comes to face act
enforcement
1:02:20
and abortion related violent extremism I think one of the things that gets lost and I appreciate the opportunity to
1:02:26
clarify it is that really uh since the Dos decision actually more of our
1:02:32
abortion related violent extremism investigations have focused on violence against pro-life facilities as opposed
1:02:39
to the other way around and we've had a number of investigates we're using faac resources and our jttf we're still
1:02:45
waiting
on responses on letters that we've sent uh indicating the data to the
contrary there's been significant amount of efforts in targeting of
people who
1:02:52
are prli ver who go to clinics and that they've been prosecuted like this case a 75-year old woman who is now going to
1:02:58
jail in Texas for 2 years because she was praying at a clinic in Washington DC
1:03:03
and we've submitted uh questions on that and I'd appreciate a response on it y back gentlemen yield is back gent lady
1:03:10
from Pennsylvania is recognized thank you so much and thank you director Ray for being here and for the work uh that
1:03:16
your team does as well as for sharing the information that you've been able to today um you just got a couple questions
1:03:22
about um that seem to imply that there was some problem with um the FBI's
1:03:28
diversity efforts and certainly the 1950s version of the FBI was
1:03:34
singularly um Caucasian male agents Etc
1:03:40
um is the FBI a better Force for having a diverse range of uh employees and
1:03:49
agents I think diversity makes us better but like everything else it has to be done the right way I think we can and
1:03:55
have a more diverse Workforce and do it without lowering our standards and that's in my view what we've done and
1:04:02
and you haven't lowered standards at the FBI we have not I repeatedly come across people who are confused about different
1:04:09
parts
of that and I appreciate the opportunity to set that straight thank you
yeah I think we're all concerned here as we've seen the roll out of
this
1:04:17
project 2025 that purports to try to eliminate any reference to um diversity
1:04:23
efforts across the entire federal government so it is sort of a top- of Mind concern as it's uh threatening to
1:04:29
become reality so what I did want to talk about today is something some of my
1:04:34
colleagues have mentioned which is the normalization of threats and violence against public servants at all levels
1:04:40
whether it's election workers or school officials elected officials in their families judges federal law enforcement
1:04:47
agents and others to be clear um I think it's very clear that the majority of
1:04:53
Americans wholeheartedly condemn any sort of political violence and understand that it's not legitimate uh
1:04:59
discourse and that it has no place in our our Civic life but words do matter and they have consequences particularly
1:05:06
when uttered by people in positions of leadership so that's why I remain very concerned by the willingness of some
1:05:12
members of Congress to repeat disinformation and conspiracy theories that undermine trust in our public
1:05:19
institutions which serve all Americans and when elected officials Embrace overheated or fact-free rhetoric it
1:05:25
becomes dangerous um I have been heartened as many national leaders have unequivocally
1:05:31
condemned calls to violence and I would urge all members of this body uh to do so and continue to do so regardless of
1:05:38
the party affiliation of the perpetrators or the targets of such threats um you and our other National
1:05:44
Security officials have repeatedly warned us that foreign actors are actively working to spread
1:05:50
disinformation to influence our elections and discredit our public institutions and we shouldn't be aiding
1:05:56
and edting them um so to live in a country that we aspire
1:06:03
to where our most valued Democratic processes like free and fair elections can be carried out unimpeded and people
1:06:10
can run for office serve their communities and exercise their right to vote without fear of violence um we've
1:06:16
had some concerns about violence around our elections in 2020 the endorsement and promulgation of falsehoods about the
1:06:23
election results by the former president and and his campaign led to threats and attacks against election officials and
1:06:30
pole workers in Pennsylvania and those falsehoods also wasted millions of
1:06:36
taxpayer dollars on frivolous lawsuits and extraordinary security cost so as
1:06:42
we're again approaching November we want to ensure that those who Implement and defend our elections our neighbors and
1:06:48
our nonpartisan civil servants can do that important work free from conspiracy
1:06:54
theories and threats so we know our local law enforcement across
1:07:00
Pennsylvania are preparing for some disruption and threats um because while
1:07:05
Pennsylvania may be a Battleground state in the upcoming election that battle should obviously be a war of words over
1:07:11
policy and the vision we're charting for our country's future not an actual Civil
1:07:17
War so how is the FBI working with state and local law enforcement to prevent and
1:07:23
respond to election Rel related violence particularly against election
1:07:29
workers so in a variety of ways we're partnering with State local law enforcement obviously the uh physical
1:07:36
security in the first instance uh in most of the respects you're talking about is in the is in the ordinary
1:07:42
course the responsibility of state and local law enforcement but uh we play an important role in a number of ways so we
1:07:50
share you know threat bulletins information like that about things to be on the lookout for things we're seeing
1:07:55
in uh if we ever have specific threat information then we work to get it to the right people we have election crime
1:08:02
coordinators which we've had for decades uh in all 56 field offices who have existing relationship with not just
1:08:09
State local law enforcement but election officials uh especially focus on on security and threat related uh issues uh
1:08:18
and then of course we're participating in the election threats task force uh
1:08:23
that doj set up which in IS F focused on threats of violence or actual violence
1:08:29
against election workers specifically and we've had a number of arrests and and even some convictions already on
1:08:35
that thank you for your input I yield back gent yields back director uh it's my intention to go approximately another
1:08:41
half an hour um then we will we will break for the prime minister of Israel's address to the Congress um on on the
1:08:47
floor
give you a chance for lunch and then then resume after that but we'll
we'll keep pushing through for the next half hour before we can G lady
from
1:08:53
Indiana is recognized thank you Mr Mr chairman uh thank you director Ray uh I
1:08:59
think you have a little bit better tone in conversation so I appreciate it you know and answer some questions so I
1:09:05
appreciate it hopefully you'll answer also on two letters that I sent you over a year ago one related to Durham report
1:09:12
and the other one related to Russian infiltrated sbu that collaborated with
1:09:18
FBI so hopefully we'll get his answers and hopefully we'll St do authorization don't you think do authorization would
1:09:24
help us to get better answers Congress should be probably working authorized a new agency don't you agree with that uh
1:09:30
we
work very hard to try to get information to this committee and to other
committees but authorizing spending probably would be a good thing
1:09:36
for us to do don't you agree oh I'm sorry authorizing what our spending not just doing appropriating but actually
1:09:42
doing authorization of spending through this committee yes okay thank you we might start doing that uh but um we can
1:09:49
talk about and a lot of uh my colleagues on other side you know AR-15 gets a lot of bad rap you know like to bring it up
1:09:56
this issue but really there are a lot of hunting rifles that probably maybe even more accurate than a lot of ARs and
1:10:03
don't you AG we have like Millions right don't you agree we have millions of rifles owned by law biding Americans so
1:10:10
do you you know do you think we should be taking them millions of rifles from L
1:10:15
biding Americans what do you think about that would that be something feasible and really we should be doing that well
1:10:21
again I I'm not going to be addressing anybody's specific legislative proposal uh from our perspective from the FBI's
1:10:27
perspective the concern is any dangerous weapon in the hands in the wrong hands
1:10:32
in the hand person but all weapons are dangerous right I'm sorry all weapons are dangerous knives are dangerous you
1:10:39
know explosive are there are a lot of weapons are by their very going to be confiscating you know hunting rifles and
1:10:45
rifles for millions of Americans do you think it's even feasible to do something like that from low Biden citizens it's
1:10:51
not something I'm advocating okay well thank you I appreciate that so we have to go back that was a catastrophic
1:10:58
failure of security that what happened you know recently with attempted assassination don't you agree with that
1:11:05
well I I think uh former director cheel has already uh publicly acknowledged uh that it was I think her words were a
1:11:12
significant operational failure yeah then we had you know similar situation a different you know talking about bed
1:11:19
Optics speaker P at that time didn't want to have bad Optics on January 6 and we didn't have proper sec here in
1:11:25
January 6 that was a catastrophic failure too are we looking at that
1:11:31
anyone conclusion was made from that have we make any adjustments
1:11:37
because not a lot of people you know got hurt now just being here it was a lot of
1:11:43
cases burning out Department of Justice and there were a lot of them were really just LW Biden Americans that really just
1:11:50
upset with the government and they have a reason to do it so I think we need to think about it before prosecute or
1:11:56
instead of actually you know looking how we can deal with real criminals and how
1:12:02
we can have a proper security when we have events with so many people there so
1:12:08
did you uh did you have confidential human sources I think you never answered that question on January 6 in the
1:12:15
capital did you have some I'm sorry what's confid confidential human sources did you have
1:12:22
them on January 6th in the capital again I'm never going to be getting into when
1:12:28
and where we have or have not or have not used confidential human sources but
1:12:33
you willing to understand the record that you had you know you had no confidential human sources that went
1:12:39
into capital in January 6 as I've said consistently I'm not
1:12:44
going to get into where we have or have not used confidential human sources I can tell you that if you are asking if
1:12:51
the violence at the capital on January 6th was part of some operation orchestrated by FBI sources or agents
1:12:58
the answer is no no I I so did you investigate if you any confidential
1:13:06
human
sources did you do any investigation and looking at that so you're not
answering if you had any or not so if you had potentially did you do
1:13:13
anything you needed to make sure to investigate that none of your sources did anything wrong if they did wrong
1:13:18
they were prosecuted the same way like you're trying to prosecute a lot of people that really even cons in Supreme
1:13:24
Court R recently that some some unconstitutional charges let me just add that there have
1:13:32
now been I think 180 individuals who've gone to trial in addition to the 850 who
1:13:38
whove pled guilty right but I think the problem is you put this charges a lot of people would put guilty but let me say
1:13:44
just quickly because I only have 10 seconds really so I hope you will take seriously what you're doing you know
1:13:49
related to the border security is also a crisis you know have your vice president
1:13:54
was a lead meeting on that has she actually she initiated meetings with you to lead like weekly or monthly meeting
1:14:00
where she actually get briefings from you as a leading bordar that had that function have you had that has she
1:14:07
initiated any meetings on a regular basis with you g time has expired the gentleman can
1:14:13
can respond right I I on this issue of confidential human sources number one I
1:14:19
will say there is an A doj oig in uh review that's under underway that I
1:14:24
think addresses some of these kinds of topics uh I believe but I won't speak for the Inspector General uh second as
1:14:32
to this suggestion which I've heard uh all too many times that somehow January
1:14:37
6 was orchestrated by FBI agents or human or sources uh I will note that in
1:14:43
addition to my prior comments that there have now been 850 is uh individuals who
1:14:49
pled guilty and other 180 who've gone to trial they've all had access to defense Council Discovery all the things that
1:14:55
the
constitution on the rules provide them it's been in front of something
like 15 different judges I think dozens of juries and not
1:15:02
one has given Credence to this notion and in fact I don't think any of them have even really seriously tried to
1:15:08
raise it so it's not just my word for it look what's happening in the cases thank you uh the gentleman from Colorado is
1:15:15
recognized for five minutes thank you thank you Mr chairman thank you director Ray for being here for your testimony
1:15:22
today for the work that you do each and every day and that your Frontline agents across the country do each and every day
1:15:27
to protect Americans to keep our country safe also grateful for the work that you're doing in investigating uh the
1:15:34
horrific events of July 13th uh and the attempted assassination of former
1:15:39
president Trump which everyone must and and has condemned uh I would first just
1:15:45
ask do you believe that the FBI has the adequate resources to ultimately ensure
1:15:52
uh that your agency gets to the bottom of it fully investigates uh this terrible
1:15:58
crime well we are devoting uh massive amounts of resources to this specific
1:16:04
investigation um we have easily several hundred uh FBI agents analy and
1:16:11
professional staff uh working on it it is involves over half of the FBI's 56
1:16:17
field offices almost every headquarters division we even have uh some of our
1:16:23
overseas off offices working on you might say well why is that well because some of the companies uh that uh involve
1:16:31
accounts or purchases or Communications or what have you that the shooter used are foreign companies so we have to get
1:16:38
uh evidence from overseas from those companies uh I've talked about our lab a little bit earlier today we've got our
1:16:45
office of Technology division working on the digital devices we have our behavioral analysis unit our baau
1:16:52
working
on helping us build out a profile of the shooter I could go on and on
and on so it's all hands on deck on this case as I think is appropriate
now
1:16:59
when you ask about our resources uh I've been public about the fact that the fiscal year 24 budget put
1:17:07
US $500 million below where we needed to be to sustain current operations and the
1:17:12
on fy2 the current house mark would put us
1:17:18
significantly further back behind that and would result in significant risks
1:17:24
across every program and our support to State and local law enforcement uh we arrested something like 50 violent
1:17:30
criminals per day every day last year the current mark would mean more violent
1:17:36
criminals on the street more neighborhoods at risk we have about a 1300% increase in our investigations
1:17:43
related to China and its targeting of us and I can assure you China is not cutting its budget this would mean more
1:17:50
threats from China we have something like 300 to 400 investig ation just into
1:17:55
cartel leadership uh and about hardly a week goes by when some FBI field office isn't
1:18:01
seizing enough fenel to wipe out an entire State those that Mark that those
1:18:08
cuts means more fentel on the street more people dying uh so the people who suffer the most are state and local law
1:18:16
enforcement and the American people were sworn to protect and so look forward to working with Congress but we we really
1:18:21
need to be uh smart about what we're doing and I think would be a step in the wrong direction given the threat
1:18:27
environment that we face and I couldn't agree with you more director Ray and of course we've talked about this uh during
1:18:32
previous uh hearings in which you've testified and to be clear that I think the budget that House Republicans have
1:18:38
proposed which is about a $325 million cut uh to the FBI would do precisely
1:18:43
what you've described and have dilus impacts uh for Public Safety across our country and uh house Democrats are
1:18:50
certainly working to prevent those cuts from taking place you've talked at Great length about the events of July 13 there's
1:18:58
justifiably a lot of public interest in the investigation which we understand is ongoing wonder if you might if there's
1:19:04
anything that you'd like to disclose or provide to the committee or to the
1:19:09
public um that perhaps has not yet been gleaned during the course of this hearing and just give you an opportunity
1:19:14
because there's a lot of folks related to the investigation yeah one thing I can give an update on um which is pretty
1:19:22
fresh here uh we had some conversation with some of the members uh about the access to the the roof and the ladder
1:19:29
and so forth uh and our evidence response teams uh and their forensic
1:19:34
collection uh We've now believe that the subject climbed onto the roof using some
1:19:40
mechanical equipment on the ground and vertical piping on the side of the AGR
1:19:47
building uh in other words we do not believe he used a ladder to get up
1:19:53
there uh one question if the chairman might indulge me with just a few e extra seconds there's an article recently uh
1:20:00
regarding several former Trump Administration National Security officials who had received a duty to
1:20:07
warn briefing from the FBI regarding the Potential Threat from Iran and I think
1:20:13
there is this article made clear deep concern that these individuals have justifiably so about the Threat Level
1:20:20
and particularly given the events of the last several months and the need for there to be an increased security
1:20:26
posture and security Personnel for former officials who may very well still
1:20:32
be at risk and I don't know if you're familiar with that article I'm try not to use names here but I think uh would
1:20:39
perhaps follow up with your agency and with the Department of Justice more broadly to ensure that any individuals
1:20:44
who are potentially facing a threat from Iran or another hostile actor and
1:20:49
foreign Nation have the resources they need to have uh the the security available to them so again without
1:20:55
reference to any specific individual um I want to be very clear about this
1:21:00
because I've I've tried to be vocal on this but it sometimes doesn't um get noticed as much which is that in my view
1:21:08
the Iranian government has been extremely aggressive and Brazen uh we have seen in the last few
1:21:15
years an attempt I'm speaking just from public information now an attempt to
1:21:21
assassinate a former US National Security adviser on us soil we have seen
1:21:27
an attempt first to kidnap and then to try to murder an American dissonant slj
1:21:35
journalist who was a Critic of the Iranian regime right smack in the middle in New York City we have seen uh a Cyber
1:21:43
attack against a Children's Hospital in New England that ties back to Iran we
1:21:49
have seen uh as I've testified before as director rackliffe and I announced an effort by the Iranians to Target the
1:21:56
2020 presidential election uh and that's all before you even get to the fact that
1:22:01
the Iranian government is the leading State sponsor of terrorism so if that's not enough to convince people that Iran
1:22:08
is a threat I don't know what is but director was there a distinction between what the gentleman from Colorado raised
1:22:13
and what you just said this General concern in these these specific uh instance you talk about and a direct
1:22:20
specific threat on President Trump that's distinct from what you've been describing as this General concern with
1:22:26
Iran well again I I can't get into specific pieces of class and if so when if it was a distinct threat on President
1:22:33
Trump when did that when did that take place yeah I I all I can tell you uh certainly in this kind of setting is
1:22:42
um targeting of us officials for the uh
1:22:48
solomani strike is something that is a reality that the Iranian government has
1:22:53
at times called for very publicly uh and there whenever there is reporting let me
1:22:59
try to answer your question this way Whenever there is reporting uh about any of those
1:23:05
protectees uh we share the information in a variety of ways working with the intelligence Community working with
1:23:12
whoever is the protective service with responsibility for that individual and we do it in a timely way using the the
1:23:18
duty to Warrant process that was just referred to uh and to my knowledge everything along those lines uh that's
1:23:25
relevant was shared in a timely way with the relevant people thank you gentleman from Wisconsin is recognized director
1:23:32
Ray thanks for being here um where where were you when you heard that President Trump was shot and then what were like
1:23:39
your immediate actions response to that as
1:23:45
director I was uh about to have dinner with family um and I was horrified and angry
1:23:55
I I'm just thinking the the reason I asked the question is because I'm thinking I'm still trying to figure out
1:24:00
kind of the lanes be what the FBI would respond to and what the secret
1:24:06
service has the responsibility to respond to can you just kind of cover that again sure so the FBI uh is not
1:24:14
responsible for it's never really been part of our mandate or mission for the physical security of venues of specific
1:24:22
protectees or anything like that that's if it's a if it's somebody within secret Services scope that's their mandate and
1:24:28
Mission uh we are a law enforcement and intelligence agency and so if you think
1:24:34
about it this way we're the Federal Bureau of Investigation we're not the Federal Bureau of security you might say
1:24:39
well what's the difference well there is a difference uh we investigate crimes we investigate threats to National Security
1:24:45
but we don't questions about security posture the adequacy of uh resources and
1:24:52
assets that were deployed to protect a specific individual whether there's enough security and certainly the
1:24:58
Staffing of that security is not something the FBI uh again we're 116 years old has
1:25:04
historically done so at this point um have you been able to go through the shooters home and and kind of document
1:25:14
kind of what what you found as far as evidence goes so we we have been able to
1:25:19
search the shooters home so again just sort of tying your first question to your to your second question now you
1:25:25
know our role is to conduct an investigation of the shooter and the attack and so we're going to conduct a
1:25:30
painstaking intense investigation of that we have among other scenes that we've processed using evidence response
1:25:38
teams uh in addition to the rally scene itself of course we have been through the individual's the shooters home uh
1:25:45
his bedroom other parts of the house Etc have you been able to establish that he did go to a range and either zero that
1:25:53
weapon in or you know at least target shoot that weapon prior to the
1:25:59
assassination attempt so uh we do uh assess that he went to a shooting range
1:26:06
the day not the only time he went to a shooting range he was a fairly um Avid
1:26:11
might be a little strong but a fairly Avid uh you know shooting hobbyist uh
1:26:17
and so he went to you know belong to different sort of clubs and and went to certain ranges and that kind of thing we
1:26:22
do uh believe based on what we've seen so far that he went to a shooting range
1:26:27
uh the day before and then he shot uh uh an AR sty AR style rifle at that range
1:26:35
the day before I I'm not sure we know for sure that it's this the weapon that he used but I think we assess that it
1:26:40
probably is have you been able to uh interview his parents uh yes we have and was there
1:26:47
anything that was gained from that interview that would lead you to believe that they certainly were aware of what
1:26:53
was going on uh I would uh I guess I want to be careful I talking about specific
1:26:59
people's interviews but I would say that his parents were Cooperative with us and as I've said before and hopefully this
1:27:05
gets at your question we have not identified any accomplice
1:27:11
co-conspirators or anything along those lines um so it's the FBI's position
1:27:16
right now that he's still acted independently again we're still I know
1:27:22
it seems like a lifetime since July 13th but we're still early stages but we have not seen anything so far that would
1:27:28
suggest to us that he acted with others how does the FBI view not just a trump
1:27:35
rally but political rallies versus other types of events uh you know from a
1:27:41
security perspective uh compared to a college football game or any any Mass
1:27:48
you know large crowd type Gathering CU I can't I think the one of the things that's most difficult to really
1:27:55
um to swallow at this point is that the the idea that these Trump Ries have been
1:28:00
happening for years and that there there could be such a LAX approach to the
1:28:07
physical security of those Fairgrounds that day and I'm wondering you know
1:28:13
where does this fall and then on top of that that there were other presidential candidates out there that didn't have
1:28:19
full Secret Service protection RFK Jr has been the most vocal about it I was
1:28:24
wondering if you could comment on the on the facilities as well as providing security for presidential candidates
1:28:31
well again I want to be a little bit careful to stay in my Lane because again security posture and the adequacy of the
1:28:37
security posture uh is is really the core expertise and responsibility of agencies like the Secret Service but uh
1:28:45
certainly it is I think fair to say that uh outdoor events whether they're
1:28:51
political rallies or as you say you know a college football game game in an open Stadium a concert uh these are places
1:28:58
that are uh often you know particularly challenging to secure
1:29:03
adequately uh because the range of threats that can face them are are higher uh in addition to that has been
1:29:10
has been discussed a little bit here uh already in in today's hearing just
1:29:15
threats to public officials including politicians uh is an
1:29:20
increasingly uh pervasive part of today's landscape and so that adds to
1:29:26
the challenge so you're talking about the combination of um uh individuals who
1:29:32
are increasingly targeted for violence combined with uh venues that
1:29:39
are softer and harder to secure uh targets I guess is the way I would answer but again th those kinds of
1:29:46
questions the adequacy of the security posture uh all the resources that were
1:29:52
or were not devote all that stuff is my understanding would be very much in scope for the uh DHS Inspector General
1:30:00
uh investigation and this outside independent panel that's been appointed y back gentle uh gentleman Yi's back uh
1:30:06
director
I think we're going to be able to get two more members uh times a
question then we have to get to the floor for the for the Prime Minister
J L
1:30:13
from George is recognized thank you chair Johnson and thank you so much director director Ray for you know your
1:30:18
transparency and your testimony today um first I want to say my friend my Mentor
1:30:24
congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee was known by many as the voice of reason here in Congress and she was my friend
1:30:31
before I even came to Congress and in my freshman year she kind of took me under her wing and she kind of showed me the
1:30:38
ropes and she was a force to be reckoned with and I can say that she will never
1:30:44
ever be replaced and she was a Trailblazer and I know that she will sorely be missed here in Congress uh
1:30:52
director Ray I only have one question question for you today but before we get to that point I just like to reiterate
1:30:58
today that political violence is never acceptable regardless of how different
1:31:04
our political values and Views are attempted assassinations are Asain to
1:31:10
the very democratic ideals of this nation we have endured riots on Capitol
1:31:17
Hill on January 6th where a literal noose was erected on Capital grounds
1:31:23
intended for than vice president Pence and speaker Emeritus Nancy Pelosi
1:31:28
political vience violence against election workers that has been expressed
1:31:33
today an attack on Paul Pelosi Nancy Pelosi's
1:31:38
husband threats against the FBI agents as you have expressed and prosecutors
1:31:44
and threats to the staff who serve the public every single
1:31:50
day Congressman Connelly's staff was targeted and attacked last year and now
1:31:57
we have the attempted assassination of a former president of the United States
1:32:03
all of this within just the last three years this violence simply needs to end
1:32:10
the assassination attempt on Donald Trump was by the grace of God a failure
1:32:17
the weapon the 20-year-old man was able to obtain an AR-15 generally has a
1:32:22
shooting range up to 600 yard and shot Mr Trump from almost 150
1:32:29
yard away this weapon has the ability to kill multiple people in seconds and
1:32:36
sadly Corey compur lost his life because of this man and because of this gun Mr
1:32:45
cator's family will never be the same trust me I understand that more than
1:32:50
anyone else in this room is the near loss of a former president
1:32:57
enough for this Congress to finally take action because there are 206 of us that
1:33:03
are already standing in the wings ready to take immediate action to ban assault
1:33:09
weapons today we need only 12 more of our colleagues to join us in Courage and
1:33:16
move the legislation to save lives of so many of the people that we are elected
1:33:24
to serve by removing assault weapons from the hands of people who simply should not have them in their
1:33:32
possession we are crippling our democracy and we are ripping apart our
1:33:37
fellow Americans until we do I ask today because it is clearly clearly wasn't
1:33:44
enough to take action when The lethality of salt of assault weapons we lost
1:33:52
26 and 7 year olds and six teachers in 2012 when I also lost my son to gun
1:33:59
violence or 14 teenagers and three more teachers in 2018 nor was it enough when
1:34:05
we lost 19 more children and two more teachers in 2022 well is it enough
1:34:13
now now that a former president the very president and many of you in this room
1:34:18
are hoping will be reelected almost lost his life because this Congress has
1:34:24
failed to reinstate an assault weapons ban a ban that by the way Republicans
1:34:30
joined with Democrats the pass 30 years ago well fine if you all don't like
1:34:37
assault weapons ban we can bring another bill that I have introduced to a vote the gosafe ACT this bill focuses on the
1:34:43
components of the semi-automatic automatic firearms and regulates their infrastructure sale and transfer this
1:34:50
again is not the time for thoughts and prayers this is a Time for Action director Ray just one question I
1:34:58
have for you would you rather have your officers
1:35:04
protect it or protect someone against an assault weapon being shot from 147 yards
1:35:13
away or standard pistol with no accessories
1:35:19
attached well again I'm not I'm going to refrain from appearing to comment on specific legislative proposals but I can
1:35:26
tell you that we have certainly concerned uh about the uh danger to law
1:35:32
enforcement from high any kind of high-powered weapon in the wrong hands and it hits close to home for
1:35:39
us uh because just not that long ago two great agents Lura schwarzenberger and
1:35:45
Dan Alin down in Miami executing a surge in crimes against children case were
1:35:51
shot and killed by uh a subject with an automatic weapon so again dangerous
1:35:57
weapons in the wrong hands uh is something that of course from a law enforcement perspective concerns us but
1:36:02
I'm not going to wait into the legislative process well thank you for that answer I'd rather give our agents a
1:36:08
fighting chance and I yield back G lady yields back gentlemen from Oregon recogniz thank you Mr chair and thank
1:36:13
you director Ray for being here today so we spend $3 billion do a year excuse me
1:36:19
on the Secret Service three billion and um that it would seem that we could and
1:36:24
should have had a better job done uh a few weeks ago on the 13th than what we saw will you have anything to say about
1:36:31
correcting what are the obvious deficiencies and what the Secret Service
1:36:37
did well uh for the most part the the deficiencies or adequacy or inadequacy
1:36:45
of secret Services performance uh decision making resources all that stuff is is in the purview of those two other
1:36:52
investigations that is the DHS Inspector General and the outside independent panel that's been announced having said
1:36:59
that our investigation which as I've testified now is involves several
1:37:05
hundred FBI employees and every asset we can bring to bear of the shooter again
1:37:10
our investigations of the shooter and his attack of course involves interviewing law enforcement including
1:37:18
lots and lots and lots of Secret Service people so we'll share all that with those reviews so that they can answer
1:37:23
those
the reason the reason I'm asking this is because this isn't the first
time the secret service has been before Congress there was a 435 page
report
1:37:31
issued in 2015 by by Congress saying fix yourself
1:37:37
they didn't in fact there was a follow up in 09 where they had only done a few of the I think it was 18 or 19 different
1:37:44
specific things they were supposed to do they'd done some but certainly not at all there was another followup in
1:37:50
2022 and again the Secret Service had not done what Congress had asked I guess
1:37:55
my question to you uh Mr director is how what should Congress do we 435 page
1:38:02
report nine years ago and still the Secret Service isn't isn't didn't do what it was told to do then can you help
1:38:09
director Reay because this this type of performance is is not is is not
1:38:15
acceptable well as I get I think even former director cheel has acknowledged uh that this was a a significant
1:38:22
operational failure if there are ways for the FBI to be helpful beyond what we're already doing in terms of our
1:38:27
investigation We Stand ready to try to be helpful I I do want to say as somebody who's been in law enforcement
1:38:32
for most of my career I've worked with some just phenomenal Secret Service
1:38:38
agents all the way back to my time as a line prosecutor and they they have an incredibly hard job uh and I have a lot
1:38:44
of affection and respect for the men and women of the Secret Service I'm sure you do and I'm sure you're right but the
1:38:50
trouble is when Congress says you need to do these 19 things and they don't something needs to change now the
1:38:56
director has resigned but you're going to be in a position because your agency is doing such a careful review to to say
1:39:03
a lot about what should have been done I guess the real issue is much more of what the higher ups in that agency are
1:39:10
or are not doing perhaps that's on us and we will share we will share with those reviews anything that we come
1:39:17
across that could be helpful or relevant to them for those those question let me let me Qui quickly go to some details on
1:39:23
the actual events uh it appeared to a lot of us as the Secret Service was taking president former president Trump
1:39:30
from the stage that he was clearly still in view of everybody and had there been another shooter I didn't see him being
1:39:37
protected are you going to raise that issue I think that's really more in
1:39:42
scope of these two other reviews uh let okay that's fine let me go to the the
1:39:48
shooter as he was on top of the roof apparently another officer from another police division saw him and quickly duck
1:39:55
down because the shooter aimed a gun at him um and then the shooter apparently was he prone at the time he took the
1:40:01
shot toward the president so uh my understanding uh is that the local
1:40:09
officer uh who they were talking about with the assistance of another local
1:40:14
officer was able to kind of get up and see onto the roof uh where he observed
1:40:19
the shooter I believe in a prone shooting position
1:40:24
uh the shooter then turned and faced him the local officer with the weapon from the prone position that's my
1:40:30
understanding and then he went back to the prone position and this is all seconds before the uh the shooter took
1:40:35
his but that entire time the shooter was in the scope site of of the counter
1:40:41
sniper correct that one I'd have to double check on I know we've interviewed the counter sniper but I I'm not sure I know
1:40:48
the the counter sniper didn't take a shot until after the Assassin uh attempted to shoot the former president
1:40:55
and others they got off eight shots before the the the counter sniper shot
1:41:01
the shooter what's with that protocol can you get that fixed well again I I
1:41:06
really want to be careful not to be uh given the scope of our investigation somehow second guessing the very
1:41:12
difficult uh act and decision it takes for a counter sniper to kill another human being in that situation it's all
1:41:18
happening in seconds so eight shots and and and that was after he'd been seen for 20 minutes I yield back thank you um
1:41:26
director um that's an important question though cuz youve you've talked to the counter sniper um and that I mentioned
1:41:34
this in our opening statement that critical 5 minutes from 609 to 614 and what takes place there is critical and I
1:41:41
think that's what the gentleman was getting at and we were hopeful that you could tell us something about your
1:41:46
interview with the counter sniper yeah I I I guess I want to distinguish a couple things there's um
1:41:54
there is some individual not law enforcement I believe who spotted the
1:41:59
shooter on the roof a few minutes before uh but I think law enforcement
1:42:08
spotting him with the weapon on the roof is seconds before the shot that that's
1:42:15
important so there's two different things going what you're saying is it wasn't maybe that if this if the if this
1:42:21
the bad guy shoots at 11 then you're saying this encounter with local law enforcement that Mr B was just getting
1:42:27
into happened just seconds before that and maybe not 2 minutes before that that's my understanding that in other
1:42:33
words that there's different things here there's individual at least one individual I can think of uh not law
1:42:39
enforcement member of the public who observed him on the roof not clear to whether or not the
1:42:45
individual saw a weapon or not but saw him in a way that was concerning that is
1:42:50
some number of not many but like just a handful of minutes I think separate from that as far as law enforcement goes in
1:42:57
terms of a weapon uh this this's local officer that we just talked about uh observed the
1:43:05
individual again literally just seconds before the individual the shooter took his shots separate apart from all of
1:43:13
that uh you know roughly I think maybe a little less than or around an hour
1:43:18
before the shooting there were local law enforcement officers who observed ered the shooter not Up on the Roof not with
1:43:25
a weapon but with a I believe a rangefinder kind of like you would use if you were playing golf or something uh
1:43:31
in a way that was odd and suspicious so that started happening with local law enforcement beforehand but in terms of
1:43:38
shooter meaning with the weapon uh law enforcement my understanding is that the
1:43:44
first time that happened was this local officer Climbing Up on the Roof seconds
1:43:50
before we we we want that timeline I think the committee wants that timeline and Communications that were taking
1:43:56
place
in that in that short period of time again as I've said with everything
else I really want to be careful I'm leaning in trying to share as much
as I
1:44:02
can here facts are evolving things may change but we are working on a timeline among other things committee will stand
1:44:08
in recess until after the prime minister's remarks
1:44:16
conclude we don't know yet but I was interested in what you're seeing on uh
1:44:22
his his phone the Press has reported that he had pictures not only of Mr
1:44:28
Trump but of Mr Biden and various other members political figures can you
1:44:34
discern was there you know an element of you know mainly Republicans maybe
1:44:39
Democrats was it all over the board can you Enlighten us about that well this is a place where it's particularly
1:44:45
important for me to reiterate the caveat that I've included before because in
1:44:51
this instance in particular we have a lot of legal process out for additional
1:44:56
uh accounts and things like that um that the shooter is associated with so we're hoping to learn more and we're still
1:45:02
exploiting a number of the digital devices right um I think it's fair to
1:45:08
say that we do not yet have a clear picture of his motive and I think it's
1:45:13
important for me to explain because I understand of course why everybody wants to know the answers to those questions
1:45:20
often in an investigation from interview uh people that the subject was in close
1:45:26
contact with looking at the individual's subject social media accounts messages
1:45:32
often things physical evidence in the person's resonance you might see a Manifesto things like that we're not
1:45:38
seeing that yet um but we are digging in heart because this is one of the central
1:45:43
questions for us what I can say is that uh the shooter appears to
1:45:49
have uh done a lot of searches of public public figures in general but so far
1:45:55
we're seeing kind of news articles and things like that and so the images that have been reported about really what
1:46:00
we're talking about there are when you when you do a news search of an article the image appears in the cache as
1:46:08
opposed to like a search for that specific individual uh but again I really want to be clear that that's a
1:46:15
place that we're doing a lot of work right now and some more to come on that well I thank you for that clarification
1:46:21
we're interested also in in um the role of access to weapons uh when it comes to
1:46:28
this terrible crime the shooter used a semi automatic rifle really a weapon of war that sadly has also been used in
1:46:36
mass shootings around the country including in my own District it seems to me that the assault weapons ban that was
1:46:43
once in place has to be a part of the national answer to curbing the epidemic
1:46:48
of gun violence in America I wonder uh if you could with your help director Ray
1:46:54
understand a few aspects of the investigation it's my understanding that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco firearms
1:47:01
and explosives ATF was quickly able to trace the gun the gun uh the gun's
1:47:07
purchaser the using records from an outof business gun store records that the government is re re acquired to
1:47:15
correct some of my colleagues on the other side of the a have suggested that collection should stop there have been
1:47:21
efforts to digitize which have been resisted can you tell us about how the
1:47:26
the origin of this gun purchase was discovered and the technology
1:47:35
used what I well I guess what I can say is um the uh we located a number of
1:47:41
firearms uh associated with the shooter and his family uh I think it was a total
1:47:47
of I think 14 in the house um the uh
1:47:52
weapon that he used uh for the attempted assassination uh was an AR style rifle
1:48:00
uh that was purchased legally uh that he um is my understanding uh acquired I
1:48:07
think bought actually from his father who was the one who originally bought it uh again legally thank you Mr chairman
1:48:15
my time is expired so I yield back gentle lady Ys back gentlemen from California is recognized thank you uh
1:48:21
director I'll try to ask questions that that are answerable too I think that's been done pretty well on both sides uh
1:48:29
you do the advanced threat assessment and deliver that information as to the general threat and
1:48:36
then specifics as to protected people to the Secret Service is that correct well sort of uh the Secret
1:48:43
Service does a threat assessment but they're doing that based on intelligence that they receive from a number of
1:48:49
sources including of course the FBI so we share whenever we have thread
1:48:54
information related to a particular individual or protecte then we share it with the secret service at a number of
1:49:00
levels so you're a participant but ultimately the responsibility for threat assessment as to these individuals
1:49:07
belongs to the Secret Service well again the threat assessment for the individual belongs to the secret service but we are
1:49:12
an important part of that because we share threat information if we have any uh they get threat information from a
1:49:18
variety of sources so and and you get them from that same variety of sources there they they've got no sources that
1:49:24
are ex excluded from the FBI do they well not I don't know I'm not aware
1:49:29
of any that are excluded from the FBI but they may receive information that comes directly to them that didn't come
1:49:34
to us sure okay uh director do you believe that former president Trump was
1:49:40
a a high-risk threat under your assessment well I I believe that former
1:49:47
president Trump uh can really frankly like any president or former president
1:49:52
is a very high profile figure and attracts a lot of unfortunately the kind of threat we've been talking about it's
1:49:58
fair to say not on a scale of 1 to a million with little nuances but on a
1:50:04
scale of 1 to 10 president Trump's risk was very similar to a current president
1:50:09
very similar to because he was the presumptive nominee and uh leading in the polls and so on that that uh that he
1:50:17
was a high risk by any standard is that correct certainly there's a reason why he has so much protection around him
1:50:24
okay uh Robert F Kennedy Jr the son of assassinated Senator and the nephew of
1:50:30
an assassinated President would you say he was also as a presidential candidate at significant
1:50:38
risk again I think any presidential candidate raises some level of risk it might vary from candidate to but it's
1:50:44
clearly a risk okay um so uh in a
1:50:51
nutshell the day before this attack president Trump was documented not to
1:50:58
have gotten on multiple occasions from the Secret Service what they asked for
1:51:03
the day after it looks like they're getting more the day before RFK had been denied by the president multiple times
1:51:10
Secret Service protection the day after he now has it so now my question
1:51:17
is is the actions of a 20-year-old with a a lone gunman on a roof sufficient to
1:51:24
change the risk assessment in your mind for president Trump and RFK or are we
1:51:30
just realizing the threat that was always there and being more appropriate in
1:51:35
matching it and and I know that's a little vague but but you've been at this for a long time hindsight is 2020 now
1:51:43
that we have hindsight is it fair to say that giving Robert F Kennedy Jr security
1:51:49
upping the security including drones overhead support for the president former president these are all things
1:51:56
that in hindsight should have been done the day before well let me try to answer your question this way of course as I said
1:52:02
you know the assessments of the level of security to be provided to individual protector no I understand it's a secret
1:52:09
service decision but what I would say to you uh is that and I've been saying for quite some time uh including in front of
1:52:16
Committees of this Congress that we are in an elevated threat environment and we have been for some time uh and that
1:52:22
comes from a variety of quarters uh it is a it is quite frankly a dangerous time to be a prominent public official
1:52:29
in in regards to that the other side has spent a lot of time talking about what people on the
1:52:36
right have said but there was an attempted assassination on a Supreme Court Justice
1:52:42
we have had the highest ranking Senator on the other side of this body uh saying
1:52:49
that there were actions that they were accountable we have had multiple members of Congress in both the house and the
1:52:55
Senate uh berating the the character of uh members of the Supreme Court as a
1:53:02
result of their uh uh their their decisions made both you know sometimes
1:53:09
63 sometimes unanimous whatever are those comments not any one
1:53:15
of them but are those comments and the generation of that sort of oh this guy's
1:53:22
bad for democracy this this Supreme Court Justice is a threat to democracy is that the kind of thing that raises
1:53:28
the Threat Level and would you caution against that well I I do believe that uh we've
1:53:35
seen an increase in threats of violence which again that's the FBI's Lane not rhetoric no matter how Despicable or
1:53:42
heated it is but violence and threats of violence we have seen an uptake in threats towards judges among other
1:53:48
prominent public officials including as you say a case that we helped investigate involving a threat to a sitting Supreme
1:53:54
Court Justice um an attempt an attempt yeah thank you right um and uh I think
1:54:02
it's a reflection of a broader phenomenon that we are seeing in this country uh where people again very
1:54:08
passionate I respect that very angry I respect that but there's a right way and
1:54:13
a wrong way to express yourself when you're angry and and violence and
1:54:19
threats of violence just can't be it and that's where we fit in we it's not my
1:54:24
role as FBI director to call out you know particular people's rhetoric there's a place for that um but that's
1:54:31
that's not my role as FBI director but but when it turns to violence and threats of violence that is has to be
1:54:37
treated
as unacceptable and that's the way we look at it thank you Mr chairman I
yield back director when the FBI learn that Iran was threatening
president
1:54:43
Trump's life so I want to I want to be a little
1:54:50
bit careful here not talk about specific class classified information but um we
1:54:56
have been for quite some time uh and I'll stick with what's in the open record we for some time and I in
1:55:03
particular for some time have been calling out uh the efforts by the Iranian government to attempt to
1:55:10
retaliate for the uh the killing of solomani by going after uh current or
1:55:18
former prominent us officials and we've even had had an indictment against it
1:55:24
and I think that we need to recognize the brazenness of the Iranian regime including right here in the United
1:55:30
States and I expect that we're going to see more of it and I expect there'll be more coming on that I'm not aware of any
1:55:37
threat information uh related to protect ease that wasn't you know passed in a
1:55:42
timely way but I can't really get into specifics here it's it it it's minority's time here but I I just felt
1:55:47
that
was a question the committee need to understand and it sounds like
you've known that for a long time and that information was conveyed to
the Secret
1:55:55
Service any information related to threats against uh the former president
1:56:01
which again as we've sort of talked about is um happens all too often is something that we have a whole process
1:56:07
that we routinely share with secret service at a number of levels in a timely way and to my knowledge that has
1:56:12
consistently been followed gentleman from Georgia is recognized thank you Mr chairman uh thank you for being here
1:56:19
director Ray um director Ray the FBI is
1:56:24
the independent law enforcement agency under the Department of Justice is that
1:56:31
correct yes and does the FBI director
1:56:36
currently uh report to anyone well uh you mean in a chain of
1:56:44
command uh reporting structure kind of thing yeah so um the FBI is part of the justice department uh on the orc chart
1:56:52
you would see that the FBI director and this has been true for decades reports to the deputy attorney general who
1:56:58
reports to the attorney general obviously reports in a communication sense I I report to any number of people
1:57:06
as opposed to a micromanagement reporting system uh
1:57:12
correct and you would take issue would you not with
1:57:18
any proposal that would change or alter that change of command and place you or
1:57:25
place a uh FBI director in the position of reporting directly to the president
1:57:31
would you not you would oppose that I I don't think that would be a wise
1:57:36
reporting structure um I think the structure that we've had for decades now
1:57:43
uh makes sense um I think there's a difference between Independence uh in a sort of
1:57:50
organizational structure perspective and Independence in terms of the way you do the work obviously FBI is part of the
1:57:57
justice department well reporting directly to the president would um uh
1:58:02
eliminate uh your Independence would it not I don't think it would help yeah and
1:58:08
you're familiar with uh project 2025 are you not I mean I've seen you know news
1:58:15
reports about it I'm not familiar with it you aware that it is a game plan plan
1:58:22
for president Trump's first 120 days in office correct I I'm really not familiar
1:58:29
with the details I seen rep about it it is and uh what he proposes to do is
1:58:35
to force the FBI director to appoint uh to uh report directly to him that's what
1:58:42
he wants to do within the first 120 days he also wants to eliminate the uh
1:58:48
position of FBI general counsel that is also set fourth in Project 2025 how
1:58:54
would you recommend that I think the FBI's office of General Council serves an incredibly important role including
1:59:02
uh in terms of advising our Workforce we have 38,000 people the idea of having uh
1:59:08
an organization like ours an independent law enforcement agency like ours that doesn't have its own general council's
1:59:14
office doesn't make sense to me well it would seem like any proposal that would
1:59:21
force the director to report the to the president and then uh there would be no
1:59:28
legal counsel for the uh director of the FBI that that that uh seems like it's an
1:59:35
attempt to neuter the FBI and and render it uh uh accountable only to the
1:59:43
president isn't that correct well let me put it this way I recognize that the FBI director this FBI
1:59:51
director dor and FB FBI director before me serves at the pleasure of the president uh and that's part of our
1:59:58
system um I was appointed by President Trump um I
2:00:04
respect that that I think that's a part of our structure but Independence in terms of how we do our work is what
2:00:10
matters to me and we need to be able to do our work in a way that is free from political inter well you wouldn't be
2:00:15
able to do that by reporting everything you do to the president and getting his authority and approval before before you
2:00:22
take action correct I don't think that would be a wise approach and then there's even a proposal to replace many
2:00:31
of those 38,000 uh dedicated uh civil servants who work for the FBI replaced
2:00:38
them with a Maga group that has pledged its allegiance to
2:00:46
Donald Trump what danger would that bring to the FBI if that were to happen
2:00:51
well again I I haven't read or reviewed this thing that you're refering what I say is but the FBI is made up of the FBI
2:00:59
is made up of 38,000 dedicated career law enforcement professionals it has no
2:01:05
political appointees of any kind unless you count me as a nom of for I don't
2:01:11
think that should change I think that part of how we do our work being being
2:01:16
the employees of the FBI we're coming up on 116 years of the FBI and that's the
2:01:21
way it has been for years crazy to take 38,000 Maga loyalist
2:01:28
and put them at the FBI that's frightening that's what project 2025
2:01:33
proposes and I'm glad to know that you are um not with uh that program and with
2:01:39
that I you back gentlemen you back gentlemen from Florida is recognized was the shooter on the FBI's radar in any
2:01:45
way prior to the assassination attempt we did not have any information uh about
2:01:51
the shooter he was not in our Holdings um before the shooting no communication
2:01:56
in any chat rooms no CIS or confidential human sources have any interaction with
2:02:01
no we've run a a thorough search uh for the subject through all of our Holdings and and he was not in them anywhere were
2:02:08
there any FBI agents or informants present at the Trump rally in Butler not
2:02:13
to my knowledge okay uh and Mr Jordan was talking to you about Iran were law enforcement resources
2:02:21
diverted from the protection of President Trump to John Bolton as a
2:02:26
consequence of concern that Mr Bolton might have been the target of of Iranian
2:02:31
uh malign efforts uh that's really a secret service decision I don't I don't know
2:02:38
the answer to that uh that's really something they would know better what I can tell you is that um there are a
2:02:45
number of individuals you mentioned one who we've have brought a case uh a specific criminal case for the Iranians
2:02:51
targeting
for assassination but how the are you going to are you going to get
that answer to us whether or not resources were diverted from Trump to
2:02:57
Bolton is that just going to be part of your review I think that's going to be part of the reviews by the inspector the
2:03:03
Inspector General Inspector General for DHS right of DHS and outside pan I think
2:03:09
that's
an important point because the Inspector General for DHS has really
fallen out of favor with the administration because he's been
2:03:14
pointing out all the problems on the border with my orcus and Biden and we're always kind of worried that they're
2:03:19
about to fire him which would be a really bad idea now that this role that you've identified is is so critical be
2:03:26
be a bad idea to fire the IG for DHS during the pendency of this right Mr director I don't think that would be a
2:03:31
good idea I'm I'm with you on that so I want to zoom out a little bit how often do you brief President
2:03:39
Biden uh you mean on this specifically Cas no in your role as FBI director I
2:03:45
mean I I don't know that I could give you a number i' is it like weekly monthly daily it's it's not it's not a
2:03:52
regular
Cadence there have been times when there have been months at a time
when I haven't and then there have been times when several days apart I
have um
2:03:59
it's always with other people uh the vice president is she typically there uh often has been okay so so when
2:04:08
did you notice his decline uh in my interactions in my role
2:04:15
uh all my interactions with the current president have been completely professional right but I mean his the
2:04:21
cognitive decline I don't saying he treated you unprofessionally just maybe not picking things up as quickly as he
2:04:26
used to again I I don't meet with him very often uh but what you're describing
2:04:32
is not something that I've observed during my interactions with him I mean we've we've had it observed so often
2:04:38
that the ranking member and Mr Schiff on this committee have said that he could no longer continue as a candidate and so
2:04:44
since you're the FBI director I was just sort of wondering like who's running the country
2:04:52
something if something yeah so if something bad happened you'd have to go brief President Biden about it right now
2:05:00
God forbid and I on any number of occasions I have briefed the president and as I said those briefings have all
2:05:05
been uneventful and unremarkable oh I I I could imagine them being uneventful um
2:05:11
the but but in in the work where the vice president's also present like you
2:05:16
say
there's like more than half the time there's these briefings she's
there too I don't know if I said more than half the time certainly there
have been times
2:05:23
where
she's been present there have been other times where she hasn't I take
you at your word when you say this is the most complicated threat
2:05:29
environment you've ever observed over a long career in law enforcement and I'm
2:05:35
just kind of wondering with this assassination attempt with the invasion at our border with all the Hamas that
2:05:41
have been LED in that you've talked about and briefed about like is Biden up to it and if he's not up to it and
2:05:49
you're a guy who's been regularly breathing in him like who who's been in
2:05:54
on this conspiracy to hide the real Joe Biden from all of us for years it never
2:06:00
occurred to you that this guy wasn't up to it in all these briefings you did as
2:06:05
I said my briefings with the president have all been completely fine um were
2:06:11
they between. asked questions there hasn't been anything of note in the area that you're talking about yeah did did
2:06:16
you ever have to brief him before 10:00 a.m. or after 400 p.m. we hear those are his good hours
2:06:24
I can't I certainly times that I have briefed have included outside those hours right okay I just you know I I
2:06:31
think the American people want to know how we got to this point with someone who's very so diminished his own party
2:06:38
has basically put him out to pasture and since you had close proximity and the vice president had close proximity I'm
2:06:44
just
kind of wondering if uh if you were being straight with all of us about
how things were going with him I guess we'll have to figure that out
you can count on
2:06:50
me to be straight with you sir we'll see gentleman Yi's back gentleman from Tennessee is recognized thank you
2:06:56
firstly I'd like to recognize unfortunately the fact that our colleague and my colleagues side by side
2:07:02
made for many many years in this committee Sheila Jackson Lees no longer with us she was a great member and a
2:07:08
force for America and her losses has felt and great secondly I'd like to say
2:07:14
to the FBI director that there were some remarks made when you were introduced preemptory remarks saying that people
2:07:20
don't have great faith in the FBI and etc etc etc I have great faith in the FBI and I think most of us on this side
2:07:27
of the aisle do and we appreciate your work and you appreciate your being here some on the other side of the aisle have
2:07:33
cast dispersions upon the FBI and upon law enforcement and if they don't want to support law enforcement that's their
2:07:39
business but I support law enforcement and the FBI is the top rank of law enforcement in our country so I thank
2:07:45
you and and all of your people that work with you secondly there's been some questions about the FBI may be being
2:07:51
weap ized did President Biden ever ask you to get involved in the case in Orlando Florida where Kevin McCarthy
2:07:58
says that Mr Gates is investigated for some sexual involvement with a
2:08:03
17-year-old girl did did the president or anybody in the Democratic party as Mr McCarthy has suggested weaponized you
2:08:10
and tried to get you involved in that case no sir good thank you just wanted
2:08:15
to make sure of that um Butler Pennsylvania I read something about a ladder he used ladder to get up up on
2:08:22
that roof and that the ladder was found somewhere a distance away is that true uh so we do know that he purchased
2:08:30
a ladder um uh I think if I recall correctly it was about a 5 foot uh tall
2:08:37
type of ladder uh but importantly we did not find the ladder at the
2:08:44
scene uh so it's not clear that he used the ladder uh to get on top of the roof
2:08:50
you thinking into all that uh things related to the ladder and his access to the roof but he did buy a ladder but the
2:08:57
ladder was not found at the the scene ladder didn't have any feet on it it didn't walk
2:09:03
off right thank you sir there have been a lot of threats against public officials we've seen Mr scalesa terribly
2:09:10
shot and we've saw Gabby gford shot and other Congress people and many of us have had death threats and the FBI i'
2:09:17
been made aware of those to Pro help protect us and I appreciate that greatly but we've Al had election officials and
2:09:22
pole workers threatened what is the FBI doing in consultation with other law enforcement to ensure every eligible
2:09:28
voter can safely and confident confidently cast a ballot this year so when it comes to threats to
2:09:35
election workers in particular uh you know we participate in the election threats task force that doj set up uh we
2:09:44
also uh and there have been a number quite a number already of arrests and convictions uh under that task force uh
2:09:51
we have got a number of Investigations underway that involve all kinds of threats to election workers ranging from
2:09:58
online threats to uh there was even some mailings that included fenel uh so
2:10:03
there's been a number of types of threats to election workers and these are after all people who are putting in
2:10:09
their own time for the good of the country to try to help us have a functioning democracy and so the idea
2:10:14
that they would be targeted with violence uh is just outrageous uh we are
2:10:20
sharing information with uh election officials uh about things to be on the lookout for we have election crime
2:10:27
coordinators and all 50 you'll be prepared for election day with additional FBI will be looking out for
2:10:32
yes thank you thank you um Jeffrey Epstein um been in the news a lot lately
2:10:39
about H involvement with certain people high in politics involved did the FBI
2:10:45
conduct the raid on his uh townhouse in New York when he was uh incarcerated in uh in New York there was a raid on his
2:10:53
East Side townhouse well I don't know about a raid I I I know we executed a number of
2:10:59
searches in the course of our fairly extensive investigation related you tell me during that search if you came across
2:11:05
and have within your the possession of the FBI tapes of him with other
2:11:10
individuals that he might have taken in people in compromising yeah I don't I
2:11:15
don't know that there's anything I can share related to that I can see if there's information we could provide and
2:11:21
maybe get back to you on it um if there were tapes of people in prominent positions friends of his he posts for
2:11:26
pictures with possibly in compromising positions it would be the public I think has a right to see
2:11:32
those well I mean how we handle evidence recovered in a criminal investigation uh
2:11:37
has all kinds of rules that apply to it uh I recognize the intense public interest in the subject but we' have to
2:11:43
follow
our rules but I'm happy like I said I'm happy to follow up with my team
on it thank you sir and I appreciate your service and uh and uh thank
you for
2:11:51
being being here today gentleman yield the last
2:11:56
five
chair now recognize the gentleman from Arizona thank you m thank you Mr
chairman and thank you director Ray for being here how many shots did
the
2:12:03
shooter fire well we we know that he fired at
2:12:08
least eight because we recovered eight cartridges on the roof okay and are all
2:12:13
the the cartridges and the unspent bullets have they been you know how many
2:12:18
there are you've accounted for all of those I assume yeah we believe we have we
2:12:25
believe we have again there's was lots of work still ongoing but yes we believe we have accounted and did the recovered
2:12:31
shells the cartridges match the shooter's rifle my recollection is yes okay and
2:12:38
you conducted analysis that confirms that uh well we work with ATF but yes
2:12:43
there so so some of the work has been divided up but and uh how many shells uh casings were recovered from the location
2:12:50
of
the counter sniper I'm sorry I couldn't hear the last part uh from the
counter snipers location uh that I don't have the answer
2:12:57
at least here at my fingertips okay um would did The Blood and Tissue
2:13:04
pattern of the shooter did it match the stories or the the witness testimony that you've heard so
2:13:10
far can you uh well I'm not sure I'm following the the question well you I
2:13:18
assume you've interviewed the counter snipers you have that evidence and other Witnesses describing uh the the the kill
2:13:25
of the shooter um and I'm wondering if the The
2:13:30
Blood and Tissue and brain matter is consistent with the testimony that
2:13:35
you're
receiving in other words it's the physical in terms of the manner of
death exactly it's the physical evidence consistent with where the shot
from the
2:13:43
counter sniper took place yeah so um so the autopsy is being handled by uh as Is
2:13:49
Not Unusual the state authorities uh my understanding is uh thus far I don't
2:13:56
think it's fully complete uh which is not again not totally unusual uh but so far uh nothing remarkable uh on that on
2:14:04
that front that's that's from the body itself but from actually the scene where the shooter was found is everything
2:14:11
consistent with the testimony the physical evidence at the scene is that consistent with the testimony you've
2:14:16
seen that you've heard so far uh so far yes again ongoing
2:14:22
investigation were you able to determine whether the shooter took the gun uh up with him when he climbed up to
2:14:29
the top of the roof or was it already placed there somewhere so that is something that we're drilling into right
2:14:36
now uh that we don't know the answer to yet I can tell you which may be relevant though to your question that um and I
2:14:42
don't think this has been reported yet that the uh weapon had a collapsible
2:14:47
stock which could explain uh why it might have been less easy for
2:14:53
people to observe you know because one of the things that we're finding is people have observed him the first
2:14:59
people to observe him with the weapon were when he was already on the roof and we haven't yet found anybody with
2:15:05
firsthand uh observation of him with the weapon walking around beforehand so that
2:15:10
doesn't mean he wasn't obviously but but the collapsible stock is is potentially
2:15:16
a very significant feature that might be relevant to that did he have a scope
2:15:22
I I believe so but I just as I sit here right now I don't remember okay um you you mentioned uh about two hours before
2:15:29
the incident that that he'd had a drone and he was using a drone
2:15:35
i instead of me putting words in your mouth just tell me what how you discovered the Drone how you discovered
2:15:41
that the time um and what how you discovered if you can describe what he
2:15:47
would have been observing with a drone and how you determined that please so this is a something that's uh very much
2:15:53
ongoing right now we're going back and forth with our lab as they continue to do work on it what I would say is the
2:15:59
Drone was in his car uh as I said we've been able to by exploiting the Drone uh
2:16:05
determine you know its use and flight paths there were no uh pictures or
2:16:11
videos on the Drone of uh of the day of the rally for example but we have been
2:16:17
able to to reverse engineer the flight path of the Drone from the day of the
2:16:22
rally and that's how we know that for about 11 minutes from I think it's around 3:50 p.m. to 4 p.m. somewhere in
2:16:29
that range he was flying the Drone and we have the flight path it's about 200 yard away from where former president
2:16:37
Trump would ultimately be speaking uh and so that would have primarily given
2:16:42
him a vantage point um trying to think how to describe this if if the former
2:16:48
president's Podium was that way yeah the Drone would be uh over here
2:16:55
looking you know say 200 yard again off this way looking back so it would have
2:17:00
shown the shooter we think again this we're still doing more work on this I really want to qualify what I'm saying
2:17:07
but I'm trying to be transparent and lean in here we think it would have shown him uh kind of what would have
2:17:13
been behind him when you say behind him behind the the shooter correct like in other words
2:17:19
almost like giving him a rear view mirror of the the scene behind him except again he wasn't flying it
2:17:25
overhead while he was later back for the assassination but he would have had uh
2:17:30
with the Drone he would have been able to also assess kind of where because the stage I assume was already set he would
2:17:36
been able to assess that angle with the rooftop as well forward and backward I
2:17:41
assume well certainly going towards the towards the podium again we're still trying to figure out exactly what he
2:17:47
talk cuz we're having to in effect because there's no recording of what he saw during those 11 minutes you know our
2:17:54
hypothesis at this point the experts think he would have been live streaming it and so we're trying to in effect say
2:18:00
okay if this was the flight pattern given these capabilities of the Drone what would you have seen what could you
2:18:06
have seen for those 11 minutes and again it's it wasn't over the the stage or the
2:18:11
the kind of the Hub of the rally was about 200 yards away but it looks like it would have been
2:18:16
looking let's say you know length of a football field or so more you know kind of towards towards the the podium great
2:18:24
thank you Mr how many separate times was the shooter on the premises uh so again with the caveat
2:18:31
that were continuing to do work on it we we believe that the first time he traveled to the the grounds uh was I
2:18:40
think a week before uh and he spent roughly 20 minutes there uh then he went to the
2:18:48
grounds again uh on the morning morning of the event it appears uh for about 70 minutes
2:18:57
I think but again I I qualify that I'd have to go back and look to be sure of that part um and then he came back in
2:19:04
the afternoon so that would be I guess a third time um for good uh but that
2:19:10
included uh things like this drone activity we just talked about gentlemen from uh California recognized thank you
2:19:17
Mr chairman um director thank you for appearing thank you for for the extraordinary job that you're doing uh
2:19:23
please convey our thanks to the men and women at the Bureau for their incredible work um I've worked with them since I
2:19:29
was an assistant us attorney uh more than 30 years ago um let me start with a threshold a question I'm curious about
2:19:36
um when I applied to be an assistant us attorney I had to go through a background check um do candidates for
2:19:42
the FBI have to go through background checks yes uh would someone with dozens
2:19:49
of felony convictions survive a background check for the bureau no so
2:19:55
they would never be hired by The Bureau no um well clearly the bureau has you don't
2:20:02
have to comment on this I know you won't but clearly the bureau has higher standards for their hiring than one of
2:20:07
America's great political parties um let me turn to the events of the the tragic
2:20:16
shooting um have you been able to gain access to the shooters electronic
2:20:22
communications uh social media and with the caveats that you mentioned that investigation is still early have you
2:20:28
been able to make any deductions or um are there any indications of the shooters motivation from those
2:20:36
electronic uh Holdings so in terms of our ability to
2:20:41
access it we have uh been able to um get into and exploit a number of electronic
2:20:48
devices digital devices but not all of them yet and then within uh his various accounts
2:20:53
we've
been able to get access to some of them but some of them we're still
waiting on some of them we may never get access to because of the
encryption
2:21:00
issue uh that it presents an increasingly uh vexing barrier for law
2:21:05
enforcement not just the FBI but for law enforcement all over the country uh but so we're still drilling into that uh we
2:21:12
have some information some places we've been able to look some places we will be able to look some places we may never be
2:21:18
able to see no matter how good our legal process is but that's what we're looking at right now in terms of what we've been
2:21:23
able to find so far a lot of the usual uh repositories of information have not
2:21:30
yielded um anything notable in terms of motive uh or like
2:21:36
ideology having said that it does appear fairly clear uh that he was interested
2:21:43
in public figures kind of more broadly and and I think this is important that
2:21:49
uh stting uh somewhere around uh July 6th or so he
2:21:56
became very focused on uh former president Trump on this
2:22:01
rally um and so one of the things that I can share here today that has not been shared yet is that we've just in the
2:22:08
last couple days uh found that from our review to your point about devices uh
2:22:15
analysis of a laptop that the investigation ties to the shooter
2:22:21
uh reveals that on July 6th he did a Google search for quote how far away was Oswald
2:22:31
from Kennedy um and so that's a search
2:22:36
obviously is significant in terms of his state of mind um we that is the same day that it
2:22:45
appears that he registered for the butler rally
2:22:51
and when you say that his uh electronic Holdings indicated an interest in different public figures without uh
2:22:58
revealing
anything you're not comfortable revealing about those public figures
can you tell us anything generally about them um either the
2:23:05
offices they hold their political party or was it simply people of a high
2:23:14
profile uh well a couple things first the um
2:23:23
the images that we've recovered so far from I can't remember which of his various devices were appear to be what
2:23:30
we call cached images from searches of news articles so if you do a news
2:23:35
article search of course image you if there are photos on it those photos get
2:23:40
stored automatically in your cache as opposed to me searching or him searching for a specific person and getting up
2:23:47
images of that person uh as far as the pictures that are like that there's
2:23:53
doesn't seem to be a whole lot of Rhyme or Reason to it so far other than these
2:23:58
are you know all prominent public people but they they cover both parties they
2:24:03
cover both um uh uh us people and even
2:24:09
some foreign uh public officials uh so that part doesn't appear to that that one
2:24:16
repository of information doesn't appear to be overly indicative of motive other than interest in in public figures but
2:24:23
that could be just because he was reading news stories so we're still trying to drill into that that's why all
2:24:28
of these outstanding uh legal process returns that we're waiting on for various
2:24:34
accounts platforms Etc you know any one of them could be a one that would have very indicative very important
2:24:41
information if I could be permitted one very short additional question chairman uh from that any indication of any other
2:24:48
particular Target that is someone who uh was not just sort of generically
2:24:53
the subject of the searches you described but for which there was more of an interest than
2:24:59
others there's the information I just described at the moment does not appear
2:25:04
prly indicative of targeting um in its own right uh but again that dot once we
2:25:11
get other information could connect in a way that might be more meaningful but uh I really I'm sharing that piece of
2:25:18
information with this committee and with the American public but I think it's important that we put down a
2:25:23
qualification this does not appear to be some kind of Target list or something like that this is cached images from
2:25:28
running searches of news stories um and again there's nothing at the moment that there's no pattern from
2:25:35
that particular piece of information that is overly remarkable so far thank you thank you chairman G y's back
2:25:41
gentleman from California is recognized Mr director you've previously told us that you consider the situation on the
2:25:47
southern border to be a massive security to our country is is that still your assessment I I stand by my prior
2:25:54
testimony and in fact um just uh in the last uh month or so um we've done you
2:26:03
know conducted a significant uh series of arrests I say we our joint terrorism task force is working with ice of a
2:26:09
number of individuals uh with suspected International terrorism ties and I have
2:26:15
also been very vocal about the fact that U since and this is really since the last time I appeared uh before you uh
2:26:23
that we are increasingly concerned about the possibility not just of a of a
2:26:28
foreign terrorist inspired attack which is very much very much a concern but the
2:26:34
even the potential for a coordinated foreign terrorist attack perhaps like what we've seen uh against the concert
2:26:41
hall in Russia for example but just here in the United States well the the the the 19 suicide bombers overstate visas
2:26:48
were responsible for three ,000 American deaths on on 911 what's your best estimate of the number of foreign
2:26:55
terrorists who are now in our country I don't I mean I don't know that I could give you that number uh what I
2:27:01
can tell you is uh we have lots of foreign terrorism related
2:27:07
investigations uh but that doesn't mean that all of them came in you know illegally or anything anything like that
2:27:13
it seems to me the the the simplest Act of terrorism would be for for uh dozens of of gorillas to attack low security
2:27:20
high density venues for example uh Friday night High School football games all across the country at the same hour
2:27:28
uh with bombs and automatic uh uh weapons that would produce thousands of casualties from coast to coast in a
2:27:34
matter of minutes uh How likely is such a scenario well what you're describing uh
2:27:40
would require of course a lot of coordination uh but what I will tell you and I think you're on to a particularly
2:27:46
important point from my perspective which is that uh unlike the 911 attacks
2:27:51
which again I was in FBI headquarters on the day of 9911 and so I remember it vividly and I've spent plenty of time in
2:27:57
the period after that in my prior positions engaged with the families and the victims but uh what we're seeing
2:28:05
more and more with the foreign terrorist threat and frankly also the domestic uh terrorism threat is a focus on kind of
2:28:12
like what you're talking about what I would call soft targets which is really for the American people's benefit just
2:28:18
intelligence Community speak for where everyday people live their everyday lives what terrorist groups have now
2:28:23
infiltrated our country that you're tracking well in I don't know that I
2:28:28
would say infiltrated we have uh investigations as we speak that relate
2:28:35
to Isis and its Affiliates we have investigations as we speak that relate to Al-Qaeda we have investigations as we
2:28:42
speak that relate to al-shabab we have investigations as we speak that relate
2:28:49
to uh the Iranian proxies Hezbollah uh and so the frankly even the irgc cuds
2:28:55
force itself what what foreign criminal uh gangs uh are now in our
2:29:02
country that you're most concerned with well foreign criminal gangs I mean I we
2:29:08
obviously have investigations a lot of Investigations into you know gangs like MS13 for example uh and some of its
2:29:16
counterparts uh although I think if you were to talk to most most Chiefs and sheriffs like I'm doing every week uh we
2:29:24
shouldn't underestimate uh how prevalent neighborhood gangs are really it's a lot of the gang violence that I'm concerned
2:29:31
about those that we've allowed in through the southern border and what threat they are now posing uh uh do you
2:29:36
believe that the vetting performed at the Southwest border is adequate to ensure uh that aliens with terrorist or
2:29:42
or criminal gang ties are not being released into the United States well I it's not really me for me
2:29:49
to speak to the vetting what I would tell you is that uh you have to deal with it once they're released in the
2:29:54
United States and and one of the concerns that I have uh which I touched on briefly in my opening um is there's
2:30:03
been a lot of focus on the number of known or suspected terrorists encountered at the border and that
2:30:08
number has increased over the last five or six years and that should be of concern but frankly to me the bigger
2:30:15
concern is individuals who who weren't
2:30:20
uh either weren't on the watch list at the time they came in because there wasn't information known yet that ties
2:30:27
them to terrorism and it's only after they get in that some new piece of information developed somewhere overseas
2:30:33
and now we know a biger we've been warn that that they basically vet against a blank sheet of paper if they they don't
2:30:39
have a record in this country uh border patrol probably doesn't have uh any any uh record they're releasing in the
2:30:46
country and you find out later of of of the dangers or or if they use fake documents and there aren't Biometrics to
2:30:53
to uh you know connect them you know sometimes I think sometimes there are people who come in who because of the
2:31:00
nature of the threat information that put somebody on the watch list there wasn't you know fingerprints from the
2:31:06
person
at the time because not every piece of intelligence comes with
fingerprints so then the guy comes in using fake ID and of course and
there's
2:31:14
no reason to connect them and of course the 2 million Goda ways you know absolutely nothing about exactly well I
2:31:20
don't
I don't know about absolutely nothing because we may come across them
in other things I mean one of the key parts of our Collective defense
here uh
2:31:28
is that we work with 800,000 uh sworn law enforcement across the country and we train them on the
2:31:33
right questions to ask and things like that so that we can build in additional eyes and ears if they you know do a
2:31:39
traffic stop or whatever happens to be we run a greater chance of leveraging all that to pick up people who may have
2:31:46
slipped through the cracks gentlemen yous back the gentleman from California is recognized director we're about a 100
2:31:53
days until the election Russia has attacked our democracy in past elections
2:32:00
are they seeking to do it in this one uh we assess that the Russian
2:32:07
government continues to want to influence uh and in various ways
2:32:12
interfere with our democracy uh with our electoral process in fact uh just in the
2:32:19
last few weeks we announced a significant disruption of a uh generative AI enhanced uh social
2:32:28
media you know bot Farm essentially of the Russians uh that was Des designed to
2:32:35
be an influence operation uh and some of the fake fictitious profiles of uh of
2:32:41
those Bots purported to be us person so they're still at it uh we've seen that
2:32:47
in election cycle after election cycle do the Russians have a preferred candidate uh I'm not sure that I could
2:32:53
speak to that uh here but certainly what I would tell you is it's not just the Russians uh and I think that's important
2:32:59
for people to know too there's a lot of attention to the Russians as there should be um but we also know uh you may
2:33:06
recall that uh in 2020 uh director ratliffe and I announced uh an effort by
2:33:12
the Iranians to try to interfere and more recently we've had indictments uh
2:33:18
related to China 3 for Chinese MPS officers
2:33:24
creating fictitious personas posting false information online uh full of
2:33:31
narratives designed to sew divis iness Discord undermine us and I'm talking about narratives that they were pushing
2:33:38
again purporting to be Americans but actually Chinese MPS officers uh for example trashing any suggestion that
2:33:46
covid came from a lab leak or uh trashing uh US law enforcement on the
2:33:53
occasion of the anniversary of George Floyd's um death and shifting to the
2:33:59
attempted assassination on the former president I want to make it clear in America violence has never been the
2:34:06
answer not on a certain day in January or a recent day in July and I just want
2:34:12
to go through the shooting just briefly with you how many armed officers were
2:34:20
within the perimeter just ballpark figure you know that really goes to the security posture which is the subject of
2:34:26
the inspector the DHS inspector General's review and the outside panel independent panel that's would you say
2:34:33
probably more than 100 though I have to believe that number but I don't again I don't have that number at my fingertips
2:34:39
our focus is on the shooter and and his attack and the shooter was able to get eight shots off before he was killed
2:34:46
that's what it would appear yes type of weap weapon used by the shooter was an assault rifle was an AR style rifle so
2:34:53
that means one trigger pull one round is that right essentially do you like to shoot
2:34:59
do I yeah yeah yes do you know the difference between an AR and a bolt
2:35:04
action rifle I'm not going to try to sit here and engage on sort of firearms expertise but um but I fired a variety
2:35:12
of weapons but had the shooter used a bolt action rifle would that have been one uh one trigger pole one round that's
2:35:19
my understanding and there would there had to have been more well on an assault
what's the difference is it faster slower he was able to get more rounds
2:35:34
off more quickly than he would have with other kinds of weapons and that's my point is
2:35:41
that we can add additional resources to protect political candidates and we should the people who went to that rally
2:35:48
deserved to be protected from gun violence just like the students at Parkland deserve to be protected from
2:35:56
gun violence just like the babies at Sandy Hook deserve to be protected from gun violence so we'll devote devote more
2:36:03
resources we've added a presidential candidate who is also now protected but if we're being honest with
2:36:09
ourselves we have armed this country to the teeth and we have allowed the most
2:36:16
dangerous people to have access to the most dangerous weapons I say that as a
2:36:22
parent
of a seven-year-old and a 5-year-old and a 2-year-old the two oldest
who have done multiple Mass shooter drills in their classrooms I say
2:36:29
that as a brother to two police officers who walk a very violent beat and I say that as an elected official who believes
2:36:36
that my colleagues deserve to be as safe as I deserve to be when we are at
2:36:41
political rallies and so we really need to step back and think if we allow these weapons to be in our country can we
2:36:48
truly protect our elected officials and can we truly protect most importantly
2:36:53
our children and the Next Generation Now yield back gentlemen yields back it is good to
2:37:00
have Mr Massie back with us today some of us had a chance to go to Kentucky over the last few weeks and visit with
2:37:06
Thomas and his family and hear all kinds of wonderful stories about Ronda amazing amazing lady U Gentle Spirit and U we
2:37:14
are glad to have Mr Massie back with us and uh next 5 minutes Belong To You congressman thank you chairman um
2:37:21
director Ray how many counter snipers were present at the rally that day and which of the counter snipers took the
2:37:27
shot that took out the wouldbe Assassin uh I don't I don't have the
2:37:33
number of counter snipers I know it was a secret service counter sniper who who took the uh the shot that U eliminated
2:37:40
the shooter um we've conducted a number of interviews including of of him so not
2:37:47
was it one of the two that we see in the video go on top of the roof or was it a different location that I'm afraid I
2:37:53
don't have that at my fingertips here okay you mentioned that uh the wouldbe Assassin bought a 5- foot ladder you
2:38:00
have credit card evidence of that but it looks like on the scene there was a larger ladder that he might have used do
2:38:07
you know which ladder he used to get to the roof and do you have possession of that 5- foot ladder and the other ladder
2:38:13
and do you know how the taller ladder got to the scene so this whole business
2:38:19
about the ladder is something we're drilling into more um uh we do have possession uh of the uh the 5- foot
2:38:26
ladder that he purchased um close in time to his attempted
2:38:32
assassination uh that we've traced the purchase of that ladder from a receipt a bloodied receipt uh
2:38:40
that he had on him at the time his body was recovered on the roof um uh we do
2:38:47
not yet know for sure how exact exactly he got up on the roof we're looking at
2:38:52
you know various forensic pieces to try to kind of piece that together so more to come on that do um do you know where
2:38:57
the 5 foot ladder was found or retrieved was near the roof or was it in still in his vehicle uh neither um I I I don't
2:39:07
have it in front of me but I know that it was not uh I know that it was not on scene and I know that it was not in his
2:39:13
vehicle uh but I can we can Circle back to you and get that um is there any
2:39:19
evidence at all that he may have been in contact with somebody else before this occurred that may have had any prior
2:39:26
knowledge or may have helped him plan this event well needless to say that
2:39:32
that is a question that we're intensely focused on because that would obviously be incredibly meaningful at so far
2:39:38
underline so far we have not found any evidence uh of any accomplices or
2:39:45
co-conspirators foreign or domestic and you're using GE location data to see if
2:39:51
his cell phone was near another cell phone I presume right we're doing lots of different kinds of cellular analysis
2:39:58
uh geolocation stuff looking at his accounts uh he he from everything we've
2:40:03
seen um which is consistent with what we've learned in interviews you know a
2:40:09
lot of people describe him as a loner that does kind of fit with what we're seeing in his devices you know his his
2:40:15
list of contacts for example uh is very short you know compared to what you
2:40:21
would normally see from from most people so doesn't appear to be a whole lot of interaction between him uh you know face
2:40:28
Toof face or digital with a lot of people okay thank you that doesn't mean there's not any and that's why we're
2:40:34
drilling into we're trying to talk to anybody who's had any engagement with him whatsoever digital you know in
2:40:39
person classmates co-workers right Etc appreciate that and now I want to talk about another possible assassination
2:40:46
attempt and I'll start by showing a video of president President Biden and this is from Recently this is in the
2:40:52
last month if the we can play that Gallows erected to hang the vice president Mike
2:40:59
Pence I think it's fair to say it's one of the darkest days in the history of America okay and he's he's referring to
2:41:06
January 6 were there Gallows erected to hang Mike Pence as the President says
2:41:14
here uh I'm not aware of any physical Gallows I can't remember whether from a
2:41:19
demonstration perspective there may not have been some um um kind of replica or or symbol of
2:41:26
something like that that's that's my impression can we show uh can you raise that up so you can see it it looks like
2:41:33
there there was some kind of prop that was built the the construction doesn't
2:41:38
look like it lends itself to actually hanging somebody it's more of a prop I
2:41:44
think as you suggested that was erected on January 6th uh but if the president
2:41:50
were correct that the these Gallows were erected to hang Mike Pence that would be
2:41:55
a very serious allegation wouldn't it I would take it very seriously yes is
2:42:01
has anybody been arrested or do you have any leads in conjunction with the
2:42:07
erection of this um Galls we had a picture here on the screen if you can show it uh again it was just up there
2:42:14
there was there's an individual here who's seen on near this these Gallows
2:42:20
has he been arrested have you identified this person you know I don't I don't know
2:42:25
that I could speak to this specific person or or the uh The Gallows that are pictured on the image you know we have
2:42:31
had I think 850 people who have pled guilty uh to federal crimes uh related
2:42:37
to January 6 and I think uh you know another 180 I think it is convicted uh
2:42:43
at trials um so I just I can't be sure and some of them merely for going into
2:42:49
the capital but here the president suggests that individual intended to hang vice president Pence U which is
2:42:58
seems like kind of a wild claim myself given the construction of those Gallows but if we are to take him seriously or
2:43:05
even if we aren't we're let me just finish by saying this if you have no leads or
2:43:10
you're not sure if anybody who erected those Gallow was arrested or is being
2:43:15
investigated uh you know know were there any
2:43:20
confidential human uh sources involved from the FBI or any other agency in the
2:43:27
erection of that prop those Gallows I'm not aware of anything like that all right thank you I yield back gentleman
2:43:33
Yi's back uh General lady from Washington is recognized thank you Mr chairman welcome director Ray political
2:43:40
violence of any kind is dangerous unlawful and totally unacceptable just as we all watched and then unequivocally
2:43:48
condemned the attempted assassination attempt on our former president I wish
2:43:53
that we could all come together to unequivocally condemn the act of political violence on January 6th
2:44:00
instead of Defending props that were used that were harmful dangerous props
2:44:06
of gallows attempting to show what people wanted to do to vice president
2:44:12
Pence extremists attempted to subvert our democracy and the worst assault on the US capital since the War of 1812
2:44:19
many of us were trapped in the gallery that day we feared we would not make it out insurrectionists were chasing down
2:44:27
former speaker Nancy Pelosi and then vice president Mike Pence and I myself have been the direct Target of political
2:44:34
violence when an armed man with a gun showed up at my door threatened me and
2:44:39
my family and we actually ended up having to move our home so I
2:44:45
understand the increased tenor of political violence that is racking our country it has been on the rise
2:44:52
fermented by violent and dehumanizing rhetoric from Top public officials
2:44:57
including the former president and members of Congress sadly and bolstered by the proliferation of easily
2:45:04
accessible guns including assault style weapons all of this violence is
2:45:09
unacceptable and I wholeheartedly condemn it I just hope we condemn all of the violence not just one or two
2:45:17
incidents Mr Ray today I want to focus on the role of the FBI and the need for the bureau to remain politically neutral
2:45:24
and independent the FBI cannot and should not be subject to the whims of any
2:45:30
president the majority apparently doesn't think that the FBI needs to be politically neutral and independent they
2:45:36
want an FBI subordinate to the president not accountable to the American people that is one part of a larger plan to
2:45:44
undermine our democracy to remove the checks and balances that have protected us and ultimately to subvert our
2:45:50
freedoms that agenda promulgated by the former president his Loyalists and their
2:45:56
Mega allies is called project 2025 it is publicly available online I encourage
2:46:04
everyone who's watching this to Google it it includes plans to undermine every part of our government including the FBI
2:46:11
Trump's project 2025 agenda says that the director of the FBI must not be
2:46:18
independent of of politics but instead must do whatever the president orders under Trump's project 2025 Trump
2:46:25
loyalists would undermine the non-political and independent structure of the FBI project 2025 openly calls on
2:46:33
the next conservative Administration to support quote a vast expansion of the
2:46:39
number of political appointees in every office across the doj especially the FBI
2:46:46
and so Mr Ray given your extensive experience as law enforcement professional at doj across multiple
2:46:52
Republican and Democratic administrations why do you think it's important that the FBI maintain
2:46:58
political independence from the president I think the FBI is and needs
2:47:04
to stay independent and that means protecting American people without fear or favor upholding the Constitution and
2:47:11
the rule of law and it means following the facts wherever they lead no matter who likes it and I add that last part
2:47:19
because the essence of Independence and objectivity is not that an investigation
2:47:24
is going to always yield the result you want our independence and objectivity can't only be respected when you like
2:47:31
the outcome that's the very essence of objectivity sometimes you're going to like the result sometimes you're not
2:47:38
going to like the result that applies to everyone including us any number of times we're disappointed and frustrated
2:47:43
by the results of our investigations but the alternative is an erosion of the the
2:47:48
rule of law where the only thing that distinguishes uh one investigation for
2:47:54
another is power and that's what you see in some of authoritarian countries around the world so I'm not familiar
2:48:00
with this particular no I I I didn't ask you project2 thing I don't know anything about it but I what I can tell you is
2:48:07
from my perspective the FBI needs to be uh functioning as independent doesn't mean it's not part of the executive
2:48:13
branch
it doesn't mean the FBI director doesn't serve at the pleasure of the
president but it does mean that the way we do our work
2:48:19
has
to be OB has to be indep yeah thank you I have I have another question
about the role of Attorneys at the FBI office of general counsel um how
do we protect
2:48:27
that work I'm sorry could you repeat the question the role uh what role do the
2:48:33
attorneys
at the FBI office of General Council play and ensuring that the bureau
respects the constitutional rights of American citizens how do we
2:48:39
protect that work so uh the in my experience the
2:48:45
lawyers in the office of general counsel uh play an incredible important role in ensuring that our agents have their
2:48:52
questions uh about how to comply with the law and conducting their work answered uh and ensuring that we conduct
2:49:00
our work in the right way which means scrupulously adhering to the laws and the rules that apply to us I just wanted
2:49:06
to say before I yield Mr chairman that the the project 2025 also eliminates the FBI's office of general counsel in-house
2:49:13
lawyers who are responsible for that role I appreciate your Indulgence and I yield back J lady back gentleman from
2:49:19
Wisconsin's Rec yeah thank you Mr chairman uh I think it was when you were here December of last year um Mr Ray
2:49:26
that uh you said blinking lights were going off in regards to the southern border and what is happening down there
2:49:33
um has the Border situation improved in terms of your assessment with the security of Americans since you were
2:49:40
last here in December well I guess a couple things and I appreciate appreciate the question
2:49:46
so first the the blinking l lights comment that I made uh refers more broadly to the threat environment that
2:49:53
I'm seeing as FBI director across a wide range of threats contributing to that in a
2:50:00
variety of ways are the threats that emanate from the border so it's not not a comment just on the border issues it's
2:50:06
it's the threat environment that we face more broadly and my experience in law enforcement um I am increasingly
2:50:13
concerned that uh foreign terrorists could seek to exploit
2:50:20
vulnerabilities uh at our Southwest border or at other ports of Entry or in
2:50:25
other aspects of our immigration system uh to facilitate an attack here in the
2:50:31
United States I think that is something we have to be concerned about there's been a lot of focus on numbers numbers
2:50:37
of this numbers of that and I understand that but uh as I think was referenced in
2:50:42
earlier question it doesn't take very many foreign terrorists to be a real problem problem
2:50:49
we had 19 hijackers responsible for the 9/11 attacks uh and we just not that
2:50:55
long ago had a case some of the members of the committee will remember where we charged an individual for trying to
2:51:01
smuggle individuals in to uh assassinate former President Bush are are you
2:51:06
concerned that um the border patrol Chief former border patrol Chief Rodney Scott said that he was very he was
2:51:12
concerned about very very minuscule data that they were receiving so there's all
2:51:17
this um we are told that um illegal aliens are vetted against databases but
2:51:25
oftentimes they're doing Biometrics as they come into this country but not looking behind it in their home
2:51:30
countries does that concern you when there's not a review done in the Home Country well we certainly need as much
2:51:38
help as we can get from the countries of origin of these people when I say origin not just where they come from originally
2:51:44
but countries they've come through and the biometric enrollment piece uh is a course an important one we have
2:51:49
situations where even if are we doing a thorough enough job of reviewing them
2:51:55
their actions and their lives in their home countries before they came here well I mean we need more help uh
2:52:03
from our foreign Partners uh there's no question about that uh and I think that's an important part of about our
2:52:08
domestic Partners like the CIA and others that are supposed to protect us so uh there's been a lot of discussion
2:52:15
uh of course over the last several years about the uh the pivot to what it's
2:52:21
called the hard targets right the understandable Focus which I support uh of of focusing on the threat posed by
2:52:28
China and Russia and Iran uh but with that comes if you look at for example
2:52:34
the withdrawal from Afghanistan you we start to lose sources of information
2:52:40
about foreign terrorist threats from overseas and that is that is a concern to me yeah my time's running out um has
2:52:46
vice president Harris met with you in regards to the Border well I've been in meetings uh
2:52:53
with that that have included the vice president uh that have in different ways touched on Border has she specifically
2:52:59
asked you for a meeting in regards to um the threat that is at the border you
2:53:04
know
I'm not going to get into sort of specific meetings but I can tell you
that I've been in meetings that have included among other people the
vice
2:53:10
president that touch on border security issues did she ask you questions about what you thought needed to be done in
2:53:17
regards to reducing this threat to the American people you know I I really can't get into specific
2:53:24
conversations is support for president Trump a security concern within the FBI
2:53:30
I'm sorry I couldn't hear it is support for president Trump a security concern amongst your employees no is objection
2:53:38
to the covid-19 vaccine a security threat not from my
2:53:44
perspective um who improved the what is termed the Trump question a within the
2:53:49
FBI that was done by siis Dena Perkins Jeffrey ventry were behind
2:53:54
it who was responsible for that and did you know that there was a trump
2:53:59
questionnaire out there so the document you're asking about uh is an interview
2:54:06
outline that we only recently learned about and that my view is completely inappropriate I asked my team to get to
2:54:12
the bottom of what happened and to ensure that doesn't happen again and I've learned that it's not an FBI form
2:54:20
that its use was isolated that it was created not by an FBI employee but by an
2:54:25
outside contractor and that individual is no longer affiliated with the FBI but
2:54:30
we are sending what we have found to the office of Inspector General to and we'll cooperate of course with anything they
2:54:36
Mr chairman I'll just close with this um we keep hearing about these isolated examples whether it's Richmond Catholics
2:54:43
this instance when is it isn't a pattern I yeld back G you
2:54:51
back Mr Korea thank you Mr chairman and director Ray welcome again to this
2:54:56
committee and I want to thank you and your agents for good job you're doing to protect Americans
2:55:03
um earlier this week I was part of the group that went out to visit Butler
2:55:08
Pennsylvania Homeland Security members um I agree with my colleagues
2:55:13
that have said violence has no part in our democracy and I trust you will investigate the
2:55:20
events surrounding July 13th early I'm going to ask you a question um
2:55:27
I hope you keep it in mind as your investigation proceeds which is who's in
2:55:33
charge who's in charge at a campaign rally setting it up secret service or a
2:55:40
campaign and I asked this question because when I was there had a couple of
2:55:46
law enforcement individuals alluding to that question as well they
2:55:52
gave me an example they said um if a secret service says you need to
2:55:58
set up a line of dump trucks behind the stage to serve to protect the
2:56:05
candidate and the campaign says that's bad Optics who ends up winning the debate so
2:56:14
my question is who's in charge and as you investigate this crime
2:56:19
scene hope you asked the locally elected officials I spoke to a County
2:56:26
Supervisor local police and Sheriff they all had information they wanted us to
2:56:32
know to relay we just didn't have the opportunity to sit down and talk to them
2:56:38
um there was a lot of concern that they weren't given enough time to prepare for this rally they thought they were things
2:56:46
that could have been done better and ultimately what I keep thinking what I
2:56:51
keep coming back to is question who is in charge at these rallies I think it's
2:56:57
an important one because we have an election right around the corner Pennsylvania Butler these areas
2:57:05
Battleground states around the country will continue to be areas where our candidates both sides will show up and
2:57:14
the threats will continue to be there so I hope director a that you'll keep that statement in mind
2:57:20
as you continue to investigate this crime scene well I I appreciate the question
2:57:26
uh I will tell you that we've conducted well over 400 interviews but we have many more still to conduct uh and as is
2:57:34
Not
Unusual an investigation I'm sure there will be situations where we
have to go back to people we've already interviewed with follow-up
2:57:41
questions um and our interviews cover a wide range of people I do think it's important to make sure uh that the
2:57:47
committee and and the American people understand uh the scope of our investigation versus the scope of others
2:57:54
our investigation is focused on the shooter and his attack uh there is of
2:57:59
course uh and I understand completely why uh two separate there are two
2:58:05
separate reviews one by the DHS Inspector General and the other by this
2:58:10
outside independent panel that's been announced that are focused on the security posture the adequacy of the security
2:58:18
posture at the rally Secret Service decision making and actions and things like that and so I certainly understand
2:58:24
why there are all those questions um but those are those are in scope of those two other reviews and of course whatever
2:58:31
you know Congress uh chooses to do our investigation though because of our
2:58:37
interviews of people who are on the scene will relate to that in some ways and we're going to share whatever we
2:58:42
learn that's relevant with those other reviews director a my last minute that I have I'm going to flip quickly to your
2:58:49
good job resources earlier this year in the Appropriations Committee you
2:58:54
testified that you were for 2024 your budget was 500 million below
2:59:00
what you needed to sustain your 2023 efforts few minutes ago you talked about
2:59:08
foreign terrorists the last few weeks I know information has emerged that
2:59:13
information came from fisa information that was able to be
2:59:18
collected overseas on these possible terrorist threats what we have here
2:59:25
today is a domestic terrorist what looks to be a lone
2:59:31
wolf your statements there's nothing really there that would have tipped anybody off to this
2:59:39
individual is that what I'm hearing from you well I don't know that i' go quite that far because we're still
2:59:45
investigating uh a lot related to the shooter it does appear so far that we're seeing Less in his my six seconds I
2:59:52
would just say I would ask that you let us know what resources you need to
2:59:58
protect the American public and our candidates in our democratic system I I would I appreciate the question I would
3:00:04
just say this we are in as I've said consistently today and for quite some time now we are in elevated threat
3:00:10
environment covering a wide range of threats and the FBI is Central to protecting American people from those
3:00:17
threats and state and local law enforcement who depend on us every
3:00:23
day uh rely on us for all sorts of services databases forensic support
3:00:29
training I could go on and on and on and a lot of those departments unlike the FBI have had a hard time recruiting and
3:00:36
so this is not a time to pull back on our funding because we're going to leave our brothers and sisters and state local
3:00:42
law enforcement twisting in the wind and and then by extension the American people people were all collectively
3:00:49
sworn to protect thank you and Mr chair I yield Joe yield is back gentleman from Texas recognized thank you chairman
3:00:55
thank you director Ray for being here um when did you last speak with President
3:01:02
Biden I don't have the exact date but it's been certainly since the uh you
3:01:07
know
since the shooting so you have spoken to the president since the
assassination attempt on President Trump's life yes sir and what was the
3:01:14
mental state of the president we had a perfect ly professional
3:01:19
conversation um and are you uh do you have any scheduled briefings of the president uh
3:01:26
upcoming uh not at the moment specifically scheduled no um in 2016 and
3:01:31
2015 top FBI officials uh infamously texted about quote their insurance policy to make sure Trump was never
3:01:37
elected or inaugurated as president have any FBI agents texted emailed or expressed disappointment that Trump
3:01:42
survived the assassination assassination attempt or otherwise editorialized about the assassination attempt
3:01:48
uh I don't know about any agents uh there have been uh at least two instances I think or one instance of an
3:01:56
individual uh who posted something uh that I consider outrageous and totally
3:02:03
inappropriate um and uh unacceptable and that individual has been referred to our
3:02:10
Inspection Division which is the arm or sort of internal affairs investigatory arm that that does the disciplinary
3:02:16
process okay will you report back to this Comm any other incidents I I'll do my best to to share information with the
3:02:21
committee uh you testified earlier that the FBI maintains high standards irrespective of of so-called diversity
3:02:27
efforts um is it true that in December of 2016 former director Comey lowered the passing standards for phase one uh
3:02:34
allowing
an influx of previously unqualified applicants to continue in the
hiring process who normally would have been stopped back in December of
3:02:41
2016 yeah I can't I can't speak to director comey's um were the changes I
3:02:46
can tell you that that at least since I've been director changes that we have made to we're stand on a specific
3:02:53
question we're standards change phase one this is a specific part of the process were they changed in 2016 well I
3:02:58
don't recall if they were changed in 2016 obviously I started as your question presupposes after that what I
3:03:03
can tell you is since that time we have made changes to various phases of the process but none of them this is
3:03:10
important none of them lowered the standards in fact if anything they actually increased are you are you
3:03:16
familiar
with reporting that we have and we've asked questions to you about this
I'm not sure the result of the questions that a more to more quote
easily
3:03:22
accommodate
a larger pool of available applicants FBI special agent hiring
standards have been relaxed and requirements measurably lowered this
3:03:29
according to a group of former agents who have testified about this and written a report and submitted it to
3:03:34
Congress in addition specifically uh minority uh people with 20-year careers
3:03:39
one in particular a minority served for more than 20 years uh wrote in this report and submitted to Congress saying
3:03:45
that these standards were in fact lowered and that in in fact if you were hiring you were moved off of hiring if
3:03:51
you put quality above these kinds of Dei requirements do you reject this report
3:03:57
and do you have comments on this report I haven't read aware of the I'm aware of the report I know that I've read every
3:04:02
detail of it but I can tell you that the claim that we have lowered our standards
3:04:08
to be less selective and less competitive is not accurate so so do you believe these former agents are lying to
3:04:14
Congress
when they submit a report to Congress stipulating and suggesting
otherwise are you saying that they are lying I'm saying they're mistaken
okay
3:04:20
but
they're affirmatively on the record they're telling us and submitting a
report to Congress saying that those facts are directly in
contradicting what
3:04:27
you're testifying here today so just want to be clear so we know we're saying that they are submitting uh evidence to
3:04:33
our record to the contrary that you say is untruthful I I encounter all the time when I when I travel around the country
3:04:40
and have conversations with our agents and I one of the things I try to do is have meetings with some of the longer
3:04:47
serving agents without executive man my only question and my point here's application is it's untruthful so I I
3:04:54
need move on I got one minute left are you familiar with the case of paulet harlo she's a 75-year-old elderly woman
3:04:59
from Massachusetts with a debilitating medical condition um she was prosecuted for violating the phas act and sentenced
3:05:05
to two years in prison she has to go to Texas in two weeks she was praying at an abortion clinic in Washington DC the FBI
3:05:12
interrogated investigated her do you think it is appropriate for a 75-year-old woman who is praying at a
3:05:18
clinic in DC to be put in prison for 2 years for that activity do just simple question do you think that's appropriate
3:05:24
I'm not familiar with the specific case you're not familiar with that case it's been significantly in the headlines but
3:05:29
so
but you don't know how to comment on that case that it's appropriate
for a 75y old woman to be put in prison for two years for praying at a
clinic again
3:05:35
I'm
not going since I'm not familiar with the case I don't want to start
weighing in because I don't know all the facts but what I can tell you
is that
3:05:41
when it comes to face act enforcement and abortion related violent extremism I
3:05:46
think one of the things that gets lost lost and I appreciate the opportunity to clarify it is that really uh since the
3:05:52
do's decision actually more of our abortion related violent extremism investigations have focused on violence
3:06:00
against pro-life facilities as opposed to the other way around and we've had a number of investigates we're using faac
3:06:06
resources and our jttf we're still waiting on responses on letters that we've sent uh indicating the data to the
3:06:11
contrary there's been significant amount of efforts and targeting of people who are prli vers who go to clinics and that
3:06:17
been prosecuted like this case a 75-year old woman who is now going to jail in Texas for 2 years because she was
3:06:23
praying at a clinic in Washington DC and we've submitted uh questions on that and I'd appreciate a response on it y back
3:06:32
gentlemen yield is back G lady from Pennsylvan is recognize thank you so much and thank you director Ray for
3:06:37
being here and for the work uh that your team does as well as for sharing the information that you've been able to
3:06:43
today um you just got a couple questions about um the seemed to imply that there
3:06:49
was some problem with um the FBI's diversity efforts and certainly the
3:06:54
1950s version of the FBI was singularly um Caucasian male agents Etc
3:07:03
um is the FBI a better Force for having a diverse range of uh employees and
3:07:12
agents I think diversity makes us better but like everything else it has to be done the right way way I think we can
3:07:19
have a more diverse Workforce and do it without lowering our standards and that's in my view what we've done and
3:07:25
and you haven't lowered standards at the FBI we have not I repeatedly come across people who are confused about different
3:07:32
parts
of that and I appreciate the opportunity to set that straight thank you
yeah I think we're all concerned here as we've seen the roll out of
this
3:07:40
project 2025 that purports to try to eliminate any reference to um diversity
3:07:46
efforts across the entire federal government so it is sort of a top of- mind concern as it's uh threatening to
3:07:52
become reality so what I did want to talk about today is something some of my
3:07:58
colleagues have mentioned which is the normalization of threats and violence against public servants at all levels
3:08:03
whether it's election workers or school officials elected officials in their families judges federal law enforcement
3:08:10
agents and others to be clear um I think it's very clear that the majority of
3:08:16
Americans whole edly condemn any sort of political violence and understand that it's not legitimate uh discourse and
3:08:23
that it has no place in our our Civic life but words do matter and they have consequences particularly when uttered
3:08:30
by people in positions of leadership so that's why I remain very concerned by the willingness of some members of
3:08:36
Congress to repeat disinformation and conspiracy theories that undermine trust
3:08:41
in our public institutions which serve all Americans and when elected officials Embrace overheated or fact free rhetoric
3:08:48
it becomes dangerous um I have been heartened as many national leaders have
3:08:54
unequivocally condemned calls to violence and I would urge all members of this body uh to do so and continue to do
3:09:00
so regardless of the party affiliation of the perpetrators or the targets of such threats um you and our other
3:09:07
National Security officials have repeatedly warned us that foreign actors are actively working to spread
3:09:14
disinformation to influence our elections and discredit our public institutions and we shouldn't be aiding
3:09:20
and edting them um so to live in a country that we aspire
3:09:26
to where our most valued Democratic processes like free and fair elections can be carried out unimpeded and people
3:09:33
can run for office serve their communities and exercise their right to vote without fear of violence um we've
3:09:39
had some concerns about violence around our elections in 2020 the endorsement and promulgation of falsehoods about the
3:09:46
election result by the former president and and his campaign led to threats and attacks
3:09:52
against election officials and pole workers in Pennsylvania and those falsehoods also wasted millions of
3:09:59
taxpayer dollars on frivolous lawsuits and extraordinary security costs so as
3:10:05
we're again approaching November we want to ensure that those who Implement and defend our elections our neighbors and
3:10:12
our nonpartisan civil servants can do that important work free from conspiracy
3:10:18
theories and threats so we know our local law enforcement across
3:10:23
Pennsylvania are preparing for some disruption and threats um because while
3:10:29
Pennsylvania may be a Battleground state in the upcoming election that battle should obviously be a war of words over
3:10:35
policy and the vision we're charting for our country's future not an actual Civil
3:10:40
War so how is the FBI working with state and local law enforcement to prevent and
3:10:46
respond to to election related violence particularly against election
3:10:52
workers so in a variety of ways we're partnering with state and local law enforcement obviously the uh physical
3:11:00
security in the first instance uh in most of the respects you're talking about is in the is in the ordinary
3:11:06
course the responsibility of state and local law enforcement but uh we play an important role in a number of ways so we
3:11:13
share you know threat bulletins information like that about things to be on the look out for things we're seeing
3:11:19
uh if we ever have specific threat information then we work to get it to the right people we have election crime
3:11:25
coordinators which we've had for decades uh in all 56 field offices who have existing relationship with not just
3:11:32
State local law enforcement but election officials uh especially focus on on security and threat related uh issues uh
3:11:41
and then of course we're participating in the election threats task force uh
3:11:46
that doj set up which is focused on threats of violence or actual violence
3:11:52
against election workers specifically and we've had a number of arrests and and even some convictions already on
3:11:58
that thank you for your input I yield back G yields back director uh it's my
3:12:03
intention to go approximately another half an hour um then we will we will break for the prime minister of Israel's
3:12:09
address to the Congress um on on the floor give you a chance for lunch and then then resume after that but we'll
3:12:14
we'll keep pushing through for the next half hour we can G lady from Indiana recognized thank you Mr chairman uh
3:12:20
thank you director Ray uh I think you have a little bit better tone in conversation so I appreciate it you know
3:12:27
and answer some questions so I appreciate it hopefully you'll answer also in two letters that I sent you over
3:12:32
a year ago one related to Durham report and the other one related to Russian
3:12:38
infiltrated sbu that collaborated with FBI so hopefully we'll get his answers
3:12:44
and hopefully we'll St do authorization don't you think do authorization would help us to get better answers Congress
3:12:49
should be probably working authoriz a new agency don't you agree with that uh we work very hard to try to get
3:12:55
information
to this committee and to other committees but authorizing spending
probably would be a good thing for us to do don't you agree oh I'm
3:13:01
sorry authorizing what our spending not just doing appropriating but actually doing authorization of spending through
3:13:07
this committee yes okay thank you we might start doing that uh but um we can
3:13:12
talk about and a lot of uh my colleagues on other side you know AR-15 gets a lot of bad rap you know like to bring it up
3:13:19
this issue but really there are a lot of hunting rifles that probably maybe even more accurate than a lot of ARs and
3:13:26
don't you AG we have like Millions right don't you agree we have millions of rifles owned by LW biding Americans so
3:13:33
do you you know do you think we should be taking them millions of rifles from L
3:13:38
biding Americans what do you think about that would that be something feasible and really we should be doing that well
3:13:44
again I I'm not going to be addressing anybody's specific legislative proposal uh from our perspective from the FBI's
3:13:50
perspective the concern is any dangerous weapon in the hands in the wrong hands
3:13:55
all weapons the wrong person but all weapons are dangerous right I'm sorry all weapons are dangerous knives are
3:14:01
dangerous you know explosive there are a lot of weapons are by their very be confiscating you know hunting rifles and
3:14:08
rifles for millions of Americans do you think it's even feasible to do something like that from low Biden citizens it's
3:14:14
not something I'm advocating okay well thank you I appreciate that so we have to go back that was a catastrophic
3:14:21
failure of security that was happened you know recently was attempted assination don't you agree with that
3:14:28
well I I think uh former director cheel has already uh publicly acknowledged uh that it was I think her words were a
3:14:35
significant operational failure yeah then we had you know similar situation a different you know talking about bad
3:14:42
Optics speak P at that time didn't want to have bad Optics on January 6 and we
3:14:47
didn't have proper security here in January 6 that was a catastrophic failure too are we looking at that
3:14:54
anyone conclusion was made from that have we make any adjustments
3:15:01
because not a lot of people you know got hurt now just being here it was a lot of
3:15:06
cases burning out Department of Justice and there were a lot of them were really just low biding Americans that really
3:15:13
just
upset with the government and they have a reason to do it so I think we
need to think about it before we prosecute or instead of actually you
3:15:21
know looking how we can deal with real criminals and how we can have a proper
3:15:27
security when we have events with so many people there so did you uh did you
3:15:33
have confidential human sources I think you never answered that question on January 6 in the capital did you have
3:15:40
some I'm sorry what's the what's conf confidential human sources did you have
3:15:45
them on January six in the capital well again I I'm never going to be getting into when and where we have or have not
3:15:53
or have not used confidential human sources but are you willing to stand the record that you had you know you had no
3:16:00
confidential human sources that went into capital in January 6 as I've said consistently I'm not
3:16:08
going to get into where we have or have not used confidential human sources I can tell you that if you are asking if
3:16:14
the violence at the capital on January 6 was part of some operation orchestrated
3:16:19
by FBI sources or agents the answer is no no iice I asked so did you
3:16:26
investigate if you any confidential human sources did you do any investigation and looking at that so
3:16:32
you're not answering if you had any or not so if you had potentially did you do anything you needed to make sure to
3:16:37
investigate that none of your sources did anything wrong if they did run they they were prosecuted the same way like
3:16:43
you're trying to prosecute a lot of people that really even Con in Supreme Court rule recently that some some
3:16:50
unconstitutional charges let me just add that there have
3:16:55
now been I think 180 individuals who've gone to trial in addition to the 850 who
3:17:01
who' pled guilty right but I think the problem is you put this charges a lot of people would put guilty but let me say
3:17:07
just quickly because I only have 10 seconds really so I hope you will take seriously what you're doing you know
3:17:12
related to the border security is also a crisis you know have you vice president
3:17:17
was a leading on that has she actually she initiated meetings with you to lead like weekly or monthly meeting where she
3:17:24
actually get brief from you as a leading bordar that had that function have you
3:17:29
had that have she initiated any meetings on a regular basis with you again gent L time has expired the
3:17:35
gentleman can can respond right I I on this issue of confidential human sources
3:17:41
number one I will say there is an A doj oig in uh review that's under underway
3:17:47
that I think addresses some of these kinds of topics uh I believe but I won't speak for the Inspector General uh
3:17:54
second as to this suggestion which I've heard uh all too many times that somehow
3:18:00
January 6th was orchestrated by FBI agents or human or sources uh I will
3:18:05
note that in addition to my prior comments that there have now been 850 is
3:18:11
uh individuals who've pled guilty and other 180 who've gone to trial they've all had access to defense Council
3:18:17
Discovery
all the things the Constitution and the rules provide them it's been in
front of something like 15 different judges I think dozens of
3:18:23
juries and not one has given Credence to this notion
3:18:28
and
in fact I don't think any of them have even really seriously tried to
raise it uh so it's not just my word for it look what's happening in the
cases
3:18:35
thank you uh uh gentleman from Colorado is recognized for five minutes thank you
3:18:40
thank you Mr chairman thank you director Ray for being here for your testimony today for the work that you do each and
3:18:47
every day and that your Frontline agents across the country do each and every day to protect Americans to keep our country
3:18:53
safe also grateful for the work that you're doing in investigating uh the horrific events of July 13th uh and the
3:19:00
attempted assassination of former president Trump which everyone must and and has condemned uh I would first just
3:19:09
ask do you believe that the FBI has the adequate resources to ultimately ensure
3:19:16
uh that you're a agency gets to the bottom of it and fully investigates uh this terrible
3:19:21
crime well we are devoting uh massive amounts of resources to this specific
3:19:27
investigation um we have easily several hundred uh FBI agents analysts and
3:19:34
professional staff uh working on it it is involves over half of the FBI's 56
3:19:40
field offices almost every headquarters division we even have uh some of our
3:19:47
overseas offices working on you might say well why is that well because some of the companies uh that uh involve
3:19:54
accounts or purchases or Communications or what have you that the shooter used are foreign companies so we have to get
3:20:01
uh evidence from overseas from those companies uh I've talked about our lab a little bit earlier today we've got our
3:20:08
office of Technology division working on the digital devices we have our behavioral analysis unit our ba working
3:20:16
on helping has build out a profile of the shooter I could go on and on and on so it's all hands- on deck on this case
3:20:21
as I think is appropriate now when you ask about our resources uh I've been public about the
3:20:27
fact that the fiscal year 24 budget put US $500 million below where we needed to
3:20:33
be to sustain current operations and the on
3:20:38
fy2 the current house mark would put us significantly further back behind that
3:20:44
and would result in significant risks across every program and our support to
3:20:49
State and local law enforcement uh we arrested something like 50 violent criminals per day every day last year
3:20:57
the current mark would mean more violent criminals on the street more neighborhoods at risk we have about a,
3:21:03
1300% increase in our investigations related to China and it's targeting of
3:21:09
us and I can assure you China is not cutting its budget this would mean more threats from China we have something
3:21:16
like 30 00 to 400 investigations just into cartel leadership uh and about hardly a week
3:21:22
goes by when some FBI field office isn't seizing enough fenel to wipe out an entire State those that Mark that those
3:21:31
cuts means more fenel on the street more people dying uh so the people who suffer
3:21:36
the most are State local law enforcement and the American people were sworn to
3:21:41
protect and so look forward to working with Congress but we we really need to be uh smart about what we're doing and I
3:21:47
think
that would be a step in the wrong direction given the threat
environment that we face and I couldn't agree with you more director Ray
and of course
3:21:53
we've talked about this uh during previous uh hearings in which you've testified and to be clear that I think
3:22:00
the budget that House Republicans have proposed which is about $325 million cut uh to the FBI would do precisely what
3:22:07
you've described and have dilus impacts uh for Public Safety across our country and uh you house Democrats are certainly
3:22:13
working to prevent those cuts from taking place uh you've talked at Great length uh about the events of July 13
3:22:20
there's justifiably a lot of public interest uh in the investigation which we understand is ongoing wonder if you
3:22:26
might if there's anything that you'd like to disclose or provide to the
3:22:32
committee
or to the public um that perhaps has not yet been gleaned during the
course of this hearing and just give you an opportunity because there's a
lot
3:22:38
of folks related to the investigation yeah one thing I can give an update on
3:22:43
um which is pretty fresh here uh we had some conversations with some of the members uh about the access to the the
3:22:51
roof and the ladder and so forth uh and our evidence response teams uh and their
3:22:56
forensic collection uh We've now believe that the subject climbed onto the roof
3:23:03
using some mechanical equipment on the ground and vertical piping on the side
3:23:09
of the AGR building uh in other words we do not believe he used a ladder to get
3:23:15
up there uh one question if the chairman might indulge me with just a few e extra
3:23:21
seconds there's an article recently uh regarding several former Trump Administration National Security
3:23:27
officials who had received a duty to warn briefing from the FBI regarding the
3:23:33
Potential Threat from Iran and I think there is this article made clear deep
3:23:39
concern that these individuals have justifiably so about the Threat Level and particularly given the events of the
3:23:45
last several months and the need for there to be an increased security posture and security Personnel for
3:23:53
former officials who may very well still be at risk and I don't know if you're familiar with that article I'm try not
3:23:59
to use names here but I think uh would perhaps follow up with your agency and with the Department of Justice more
3:24:04
broadly to ensure that any individuals who are potentially facing a threat from
3:24:10
Iran or another hostile actor in foreign Nation have the resources they need to have uh the the security
3:24:16
available to them so again without reference to any specific individual um
3:24:22
I want to be very clear about this because I've I've tried to be vocal on this but it sometimes doesn't um get
3:24:28
noticed as much which is that in my view the Iranian government has been
3:24:34
extremely aggressive and Brazen uh we have seen in the last few years an attempt I'm speaking just from
3:24:41
public information now an attempt to assassinate a former US National
3:24:46
Security advisor on us soil we have seen an attempt first to kidnap and then to
3:24:53
try to murder an American dissonant journalist who is a Critic of the
3:25:00
Iranian regime right smack in the middle in New York City we have seen uh a Cyber
3:25:06
attack against a Children's Hospital in New England that ties back to Iran we
3:25:12
have seen uh as I've testified before as director r cff and I announced an effort by the Iranians to Target the 2020
3:25:20
presidential election uh and that's all before you even get to the fact that the Iranian government is the leading State
3:25:27
sponsor of terrorism so if that's not enough to convince people that Iran is a threat I don't know what is but director
3:25:34
was
there a distinction between what the gentleman from Colorado raised and
what you just said this General concern in these these specific uh
instance you
3:25:41
talk about and a direct specific threat on President Trump that's distinct from
3:25:47
what you've been describing as this General concern with Iran well again I I can't get into specific pieces of class
3:25:53
and if so when if it was a distinct threat on President Trump when did that when did that take place yeah I I all I
3:26:00
can tell you uh certainly in this kind of setting is
3:26:05
um targeting of us officials for the uh
3:26:11
solomani strike is something that is a reality that the Iranian government has
3:26:17
at times called for very publicly uh and there whenever there is reporting let me
3:26:23
try to answer your question this way Whenever there is reporting uh about any of those
3:26:28
protectees uh we share the information in a variety of ways working with the intelligence Community working with
3:26:35
whoever is the protective service with responsibility for that individual and we do it in a timely way using the the
3:26:41
duty to Warrant process that was just referred to uh and to my knowledge everything along those lines uh that's
3:26:49
relevant was shared in a timely way with the relevant people thank you gentleman from Wisconsin is recognized director
3:26:55
Ray thanks for being here um where where were you when you heard that President Trump was shot and then what were like
3:27:02
your immediate actions response to that as
3:27:08
director I was uh about to have dinner with family um and I was horrified
3:27:16
and angry I I'm just thinking the the reason I asked the question is because I'm
3:27:22
thinking I'm still trying to figure out kind the lanes what the FBI would respond to and what the secret
3:27:29
service has the responsibility to respond to can you just kind of cover that again sure so the FBI uh is not
3:27:37
responsible for has never really been part of our mandate or mission for the physical security of venues of specific
3:27:45
protectees or anything like that that's if it's a if it's somebody within secr Services scope that's their mandate and
3:27:51
Mission uh we are a law enforcement and intelligence agency and so if you think
3:27:57
about it this way we're the Federal Bureau of Investigation we're not the Federal Bureau of security you might say
3:28:02
well what's the difference well there is a difference uh we investigate crimes we investigate threats to National Security
3:28:09
but we don't questions about security posture the adequacy of uh resources and
3:28:15
assets that were deployed to protect a specific individual whether there's enough security and certainly the
3:28:21
Staffing of that security is not something the FBI uh again we're 116 years old has
3:28:28
historically done so at this point um have you been able to go through the shooter's home and and kind of document
3:28:37
kind of what what you found as far as evidence goes so we we have been able to
3:28:43
search the shooters home so again just sort of tying your first question to your to your second question now you
3:28:48
know our role is to conduct an investigation of the shooter and the attack and so we're going to conduct a
3:28:54
painstaking intense investigation of that we have among other scenes that we've processed using evidence response
3:29:01
teams uh in addition to the rally scene itself of course we have been through the individual's the shooters home uh
3:29:09
his bedroom other parts of the house Etc have you been able to establish that he did go to a range and either zero that
3:29:16
weapon in or you know at least target shoot that weapon prior to the
3:29:22
assassination attempt so uh we do uh assess that he went to a shooting range
3:29:30
the day not the only time he went to a shooting range he was a fairly um Avid
3:29:35
might be a little strong but a fairly Avid uh you know shooting hobbyist uh
3:29:40
and so he went to you know belonged to different sort of clubs and and went to certain ranges and that kind of thing we
3:29:45
do uh believe based on what we've seen so far that he went to a shooting range uh
3:29:51
the day before and then he shot uh uh an AR sty AR style rifle at that range the
3:29:58
day before I I'm not sure we know for sure that it's this the weapon that he used but I think we assess that it
3:30:04
probably is have you been able to uh interview his parents uh yes we have and was there
3:30:10
anything that was gained from that interview that would lead you to believe that they certainly were aware of what
3:30:16
was going on uh I would uh I guess I want to be careful talking about specific people's
3:30:22
interviews but I would say that his parents were Cooperative with us and as I've said before and hopefully this gets
3:30:28
at your question we have not identified any accomplice
3:30:34
co-conspirators or anything along those lines um so it's the FBI's position
3:30:40
right now that he still acted independently again we're still I know
3:30:45
it seems like lifetime since July 13th but we're still early stages but we have not seen anything so far that would
3:30:52
suggest to us that he acted with others how does the FBI view not just a trump
3:30:58
rally but political rallies versus other types of events uh you know from a security
3:31:06
perspective uh compared to a college football game or any any Mass you know
3:31:11
large crowd type Gathering because I can't I think the one of the things that's most difficult to really um to
3:31:19
swallow at this point is that the the idea that these Trump Ries have been happening for years and that there there
3:31:26
could be such a LAX approach to the physical security of those fairg grounds
3:31:33
that day and I'm wondering you know where does this fall and then on top of
3:31:38
that that there were other presidential candidates out there that didn't have full Secret Service protection RFK Jr
3:31:46
been the most vocal about it I was wondering if you can comment on the on the facilities as well as providing
3:31:52
security for presidential candidates well again I want to be a little bit careful to stay in my Lane because again
3:31:58
security posture and the adequacy of the security posture uh is is really the
3:32:03
core expertise and responsibility of agencies like the Secret Service but uh certainly it is I think fair to say that
3:32:11
uh outdoor events whether they're political rallies or as you said say you know a college football game in an open
3:32:18
Stadium a concert uh these are places that are uh often you know particularly
3:32:24
challenging to secure adequately uh because the range of threats that can face them are are
3:32:30
higher uh in addition to that as been has been discussed a little bit here uh already in in today's hearing just
3:32:38
threats to public officials including politicians uh is an
3:32:43
increasingly uh pervasive part of today's landscape and so that adds to
3:32:49
the challenge so you're talking about the combination of um uh individuals who
3:32:55
are increasingly targeted for violence combined with uh venues that
3:33:02
are softer and harder to secure uh targets I guess is the way I would answer but again th those kinds of
3:33:10
questions the adequacy of the security posture uh all the resources that were
3:33:16
or were not devoted all that stuff is my understanding would be very much in scope for the uh DHS Inspector General
3:33:23
uh investigation and this outside independent panel that's been appointed y back gentle uh gentlemen Yi's back uh
3:33:29
director
I think we're going to be able to get two more members uh times a
question then we we have to get to the floor for the for the Prime
Minister J L
3:33:36
from George is recognized thank you chair Johnson and thank you so much director director R for you know your
3:33:42
transparency and your testimony today um first I want to say my friend My Mentor
3:33:47
congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee was known by many as the voice of reason here in Congress and she was my friend
3:33:55
before I even came to Congress and in my freshman year she kind of took me under her wing and she kind of showed me the
3:34:01
ropes and she was a force to be reckoned with and I can say that she will never
3:34:08
ever be replaced and she was a Trailblazer and I know that she will sorely be missed here in Congress uh
3:34:15
director Ray I only have one question for you today but before we get to that point I just like to reiterate today
3:34:21
that political violence is never acceptable regardless of how different
3:34:27
our political values and Views are attempted assassinations our Asain to
3:34:33
the very democratic ideals of this nation we have endured riots on Capitol
3:34:40
Hill on January 6th where a literal noose was erected on Capitol ground
3:34:46
intended for then vice president Pence and speaker Emeritus Nancy Pelosi
3:34:51
political vience violence against election workers that has been expressed
3:34:56
today an attack on Paul Pelosi Nancy Pelosi's
3:35:01
husband threats against the FBI agents as you have expressed and prosecutors
3:35:07
and threats to the staff who serve the public every single
3:35:13
day Congressman Conor staff was targeted and attacked last year and now we have
3:35:20
the attempted assassination of a former president of the United States all of
3:35:26
this within just the last three years this violence simply needs to end
3:35:34
the assassination attempt on Donald Trump was by the grace of God a failure
3:35:40
the weapon the 20-year-old man was able to obtain in AR-15 generally had has a
3:35:45
shooting range up to 600 yard and shot Mr Trump from almost 150
3:35:52
yard away this weapon has the ability to kill multiple people in seconds and
3:35:59
sadly Corey compur lost his life because of this man and because of this gun Mr
3:36:08
compur family will never be the same trust me I understand that more than
3:36:14
anyone else in this room is the near loss of a former president
3:36:20
enough for this Congress to finally take action because there are 206 of us that
3:36:27
are already standing in the wings ready to take immediate action to ban assault
3:36:32
weapons today we need only 12 more of our colleagues to join us in Courage and
3:36:39
move the legislation to save lives of so many
3:36:45
of the people that we are elected to serve by removing assault weapons from
3:36:50
the hands of people who simply should not have them in their possession we are crippling our
3:36:57
democracy and we are ripping apart our fellow Americans until we do I ask today
3:37:05
because it is clearly clearly wasn't enough to take action when The lethality
3:37:10
of salt of assault weapons we lost 26
3:37:16
and seven-year-olds and six teachers in 2012 when I also lost my son to gun
3:37:22
violence or 14 teenagers and three more teachers in 2018 nor was it enough when
3:37:29
we lost 19 more children and two more teachers in 2022 well is it enough
3:37:36
now now that a former president the very president and many of you in this room
3:37:41
are hoping will be reelected almost lost his life because this Congress has failed to
3:37:48
reinstate an assault weapons ban a ban that by the way Republicans joined with
3:37:54
Democrats the past 30 years ago well fine if y all don't like
3:38:00
assault weapons ban we can bring another bill that I have introduced to a vote the gosafe ACT this bill focuses on the
3:38:06
components of the semi-automatic automatic firearms and regulates their infrastructure sale and transfer this
3:38:13
again is not the time for thoughts and pray prayers this is a Time for Action director Ray just one question I
3:38:22
have for you would you rather have your officers
3:38:28
protected or protect someone against an assault weapon being shot from 147 yards
3:38:37
away or standard pistol with no accessories
3:38:43
attached well again I'm not I'm going to refrain from appearing to comment on specific legislative proposals but I can
3:38:49
tell you that we have certainly concerned uh about the uh danger to law
3:38:55
enforcement from high any kind of high-powered weapon in the wrong hands and it hits close to home for
3:39:02
us uh because just not that long ago two great agents Lor schwarzenberger and Dan
3:39:08
alen down in Miami executing a surge in a crimes against children case were shot
3:39:14
and killed by a subject with an automatic weapon so again dangerous weapons in the wrong
3:39:21
hands uh is something that of course from a law enforcement perspective concerns us but I'm not going to wait
3:39:26
into the legislative process well thank you for that answer I'd rather give our agents of fighting chance and I yeld
3:39:33
back
gent lady yields back gentlemen from Oregon recognize thank you Mr
chair and thank you director Ray for being here today so we spend $3
billion dollar
3:39:40
a year excuse me on the Secret Service three billion and um that it would seem
3:39:46
that we could and should have had a better job done uh a few weeks ago on the 13th than what we saw will you have
3:39:53
anything to say about correcting what are the obvious deficiencies and what the Secret Service
3:40:00
did well uh for the most part the the deficiencies or adequacy or inadequacy
3:40:08
of secret Services performance uh decision making resources all that stuff is is in the purview of those two other
3:40:15
investigations that is the DHS Inspector General and the outside independent panel that's been announced having said
3:40:22
that our investigation which as I've testified now is involves several
3:40:28
hundred FBI employees and every asset we can bring to bear of the shooter again
3:40:34
our investigations of the shooter and his attack of course involves interviewing law enforcement including
3:40:41
lots and lots and lots of Secret Service people so we'll share all that with those reviews so that they can answer
3:40:46
those
question the reason the reason I'm asking this is because this isn't
the first time the secret service has been before Congress there was a
435 page
3:40:54
report issued in 2015 by by Congress saying fix yourself
3:41:00
they didn't in fact there was a followup in 09 where they had only done a few of the I think it was 18 or 19 different
3:41:07
specific things they were supposed to do they' done some but certainly not all there was another followup in
3:41:14
2022 and again the Secret Service had not done what Congress had asked I guess
3:41:19
my question to you uh Mr director is how what should Congress do we a 435 page
3:41:25
report N9 years ago and still the Secret Service isn't isn't didn't do what it was told to do then can you help
3:41:33
director Reay because this this type of performance is is not is is not
3:41:39
acceptable well as I again I think even former director cheel has acknowledged that this was a a significant
3:41:45
operational failure if there are ways for the FBI to be helpful beyond what we're already doing in terms of our
3:41:50
investigation We Stand ready to try to be helpful I I do want to say as somebody who's been in law enforcement
3:41:56
for most of my career I've worked with some just phenomenal Secret Service
3:42:01
agents going all the way back to my time as a line prosecutor and they they have an incredibly hard job uh and I have a
3:42:07
lot of affection and respect for the men and women of the Secret Service I'm sure you do and I'm sure you're right but the
3:42:14
trouble is when Congress says you need to do these 19 things and they don't something needs to change now the
3:42:20
director has resigned but you're going to be in a position because your agency's doing such a careful review to
3:42:26
to say a lot about what should have been done I guess the real issue is much more of what the High Reps in that agency are
3:42:33
or are not doing perhaps that's on us and we will share we will share with those reviews anything that we come
3:42:40
across that could be helpful or relevant to them for those those questions let me
3:42:45
quickly go to some details on the actual events uh it appeared to a lot of us as
3:42:50
the Secret Service was taking president former president Trump from the stage that he was clearly still in view of
3:42:57
everybody and had there been another shooter I didn't see him being protected are you going to raise that
3:43:03
issue I think that's really more in scope of these two other reviews uh both
3:43:09
them okay that's fine let me go to the the shooter as he was on top of the roof
3:43:14
apparently another officer from another police division saw him and quickly duck down because the shooter aimed a gun at
3:43:20
him um and then the shooter apparently was he prone at the time he took the
3:43:25
shot toward the president so uh my understanding uh is that the local
3:43:32
officer uh who they were talking about with the assistance of another local
3:43:37
officer was able to kind of get up and see onto the roof uh where he observed
3:43:42
the shooter I believe in a prone shooting position uh the shooter then turned and
3:43:49
faced
him the local officer with the weapon from the prone position that's my
understanding and then he went back to the prone position and this is
all
3:43:55
seconds before the uh the shooter took his but that entire time the shooter was in the scope site of of the counter
3:44:05
sniper correct that one I'd have to double check on I know we've interviewed the counter sniper but I I'm not sure I know
3:44:11
the answer the counter sniper didn't take a shot until after the assassin attempted to shoot the former president
3:44:18
and others he got off eight shots before the the the counter sniper shot the
3:44:24
shooter what's with that protocol can you get that fixed well again I I really
3:44:30
want to be careful not to be uh given the scope of our investigation somehow second guessing the very difficult uh
3:44:37
act and decision it takes for a counter sniper to kill another human being in that situation it's all happening in
3:44:42
seconds so eight shots and and and that was after he'd been seen for 20 minutes I yield back thank you um director um
3:44:51
that's an important question though cuz you you've talked to the counter sniper um and that I mentioned this in our
3:44:58
opening statement that critical 5 minutes from 609 to 614 and what takes
3:45:03
place
there is critical and I think that's what the gentleman was getting at
and we were hopeful that you could tell us something about your
interview with
3:45:10
the counter sniper yeah I I I guess I want to distinguish couple things there's um
3:45:17
there is some individual not law enforcement I believe who spotted the
3:45:23
shooter on the roof a few minutes before uh but I think law enforcement
3:45:31
spotting him with the weapon on the roof is seconds before the shot so that's
3:45:39
important there's two different things going what you're saying is it wasn't maybe that if this if the if this bad
3:45:45
guy shoots at 611 then you're saying this encounter with local law enforcement that Mr B was just getting
3:45:50
into happened just seconds before that and maybe not two minutes before that that's my understanding that in other
3:45:57
words that there's different things here there's individual at least one individual I can think of a not law
3:46:02
enforcement member of the public who observed him on the roof not clear to whether or not the
3:46:08
individual saw a weapon or not but saw him in a way that was concerning that is
3:46:13
some number of not many but like just a handful of minutes I think separate from that as far as law enforcement goes in
3:46:20
terms of a weapon uh this this local officer that we just talked about uh observed the
3:46:28
individual again literally just seconds before the individual the shooter took his shots separate apart from all of
3:46:36
that uh you know roughly I think maybe a little less or around an hour before the
3:46:42
shooting there were local law enfor officers who observed the shooter not Up
3:46:47
on the Roof not with a weapon but with a I believe a rangefinder kind of like you would use if you were playing golf or
3:46:53
something uh in a way that was odd and suspicious so that started happening with local law enforcement beforehand
3:47:00
but in terms of shooter meaning with the weapon uh law enforcement my
3:47:06
understanding is that the first time that happened was this local officer
3:47:11
Climbing Up on the Roof seconds before we want that timeline I think the committee wants that timeline and
3:47:18
Communications that were taking place in that in that short period of time again as I've said with everything else I
3:47:23
really want to be careful I'm leaning in trying to share as much as I can here facts are evolving things may change but
3:47:28
we are working on a timeline among other things committee will stand in recess until after the prime minister's remarks
3:47:39
conclude we don't know yet but I was interested in what you're seeing on uh
3:47:46
his his phone the Press has reported that he had pictures not only of Mr
3:47:51
Trump but of Mr Biden and various other members political figures can you
3:47:57
discern was there you know an element of you know mainly Republicans maybe
3:48:02
Democrats was it all over the board can you Enlighten us about that well this is a place where it's particularly
3:48:09
important for me to reiterate the caveat that I've included before because in
3:48:14
this instance in particular we have a lot of legal process out for additional
3:48:19
uh accounts and things like that um that the shooter is associated with so we're hoping to learn more and we're still
3:48:26
exploiting a number of the digital devices um I think it's fair to say that
3:48:32
we do not yet have a clear picture of his motive and I think it's important for me to explain because I understand
3:48:38
of course why everybody wants to know the answers to those questions often in an investigation
3:48:45
from interviewing uh people that the subject was in close contact with looking at the
3:48:51
individuals subject social media accounts messages often things physical
3:48:57
evidence in the person's residence you might see a Manifesto things like that we're not seeing that yet um but we are
3:49:04
digging in hard because this is one of the central questions for us what I can say is that uh the shooter appears to
3:49:12
have uh done a lot of searches of public figures in general but so far we're
3:49:18
seeing kind of news articles and things like that and so the images that have been reported about really what we're
3:49:24
talking about there are when you when you do a news search of an article the image appears in the cache uh as opposed
3:49:31
to like a search for that specific individual uh but again I really want to be clear that that's a place that we're
3:49:39
doing a lot of work right now uh and some more to come on that well I thank you for that clarification where
3:49:44
interested also in um the role of access to weapons uh when it comes to this
3:49:51
terrible crime the shooter used a semi-automatic rifle really a weapon of war that sadly has also been used in
3:49:59
mass shootings around the country including in my own District it seems to me that the assault weapons ban that was
3:50:06
once in place has to be a part of the national answer to curbing the epidemic
3:50:12
of gun violence in America I Wonder uh if you could with your help director Ray
3:50:17
understand a few aspects of the investigation it's my understanding that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco firearms
3:50:24
and explosives ATF was quickly able to trace the gun the gun uh the guns
3:50:31
purchaser the using records from an outof business gun store records that the government is re re acquired to
3:50:38
correct some of my colleagues on the other side of the AIS have suggested that collection should stop there have
3:50:44
been efforts to digitize it which have been resisted can you tell us about how
3:50:49
the the origin of this gun purchase was discovered and uh the technology
3:50:58
used what I well I guess what I can say is um the uh we located a number of
3:51:04
firearms uh associated with the shooter and his family uh I think it was a total
3:51:10
of I think 14 in the house um the uh
3:51:16
weapon that he used uh for the attempted assassination uh was an AR style rifle
3:51:23
uh that was purchased legally uh that he um is my
3:51:29
understanding uh acquired I think bought actually from his father who was the one who originally bought it uh again
3:51:36
legally thank you Mr chairman my time is expired so I yield back gentle lady yields back gentleman from California is
3:51:42
recognized thank you uh director I'll try to ask questions that that are
3:51:48
answerable too I think that's been done pretty well on both sides uh you do the
3:51:53
advanced threat assessment and deliver that information as to the general threat and
3:51:59
then specifics as to protected people to the Secret Service is that correct well sort of uh the Secret
3:52:06
Service does a threat assessment but they're doing that based on intelligence that they receive from a number of
3:52:12
sources including of course the FBI so we share whenever we have thread
3:52:17
information related to a particular individual or protecte then we share it with the secret service at a number of
3:52:24
levels so you're a participant but ultimately the responsibility for threat assessment as to these individuals
3:52:30
belongs to the Secret Service well again the threat assessment for the individual belongs to the secret service but we are
3:52:36
an important part of that because we share threat information if we have any uh they get threat information from a
3:52:41
variety of sources so and and you get them from that same variety of sources they they've got no sources that are ex
3:52:48
excluded from the FBI do they well no I don't know I'm not aware of any that are excluded from the FBI
3:52:54
but they may receive information that comes directly to them that didn't come to us sure okay uh director do you
3:53:01
believe that former president Trump was a a high-risk threat under your
3:53:07
assessment I I believe that former president Trump uh can really frankly
3:53:13
like any president or former president is a very high profile figure and tracks
3:53:18
a lot of unfortunately the kind of threat' been talking about it's fair to say not on a scale of one to a million
3:53:25
with little nuances but on a scale of 1 to 10 president Trump's risk was very
3:53:30
similar to a current president very similar to because he was the presumptive nominee and uh leading in
3:53:37
the polls and so on that that uh that he was a high risk by any standard is that
3:53:42
correct certainly there's a reason why he has so much protection around him okay uh Robert F Kennedy Jr the son of
3:53:51
assassinated Senator and the nephew of an assassinated President would you say he was also as a presidential candidate
3:53:58
at significant risk again I think any presidential
3:54:04
candidate that raises some level of risk it might vary from candidate to but it's clearly a risk okay um so
3:54:12
uh in a nutshell the day before this attack president
3:54:18
Trump was documented not to have gotten on multiple occasions from the Secret
3:54:24
Service what they asked for the day after it looks like they're getting more the day before RFK had been denied by
3:54:32
the president multiple times Secret Service protection the day after he now
3:54:37
has it so now my question is is the actions of a 20-year-old with
3:54:44
with a a lone gunman on a roof sufficient to change the risk assessment in your mind for president Trump and RFK
3:54:52
or are we just realizing the threat that was always there and being more appropriate in
3:54:58
matching it and and I know that's a little vague but but you've been at this for a long time hindsight is 2020 now
3:55:06
that we have hindsight is it fair to say that giving Robert F Kennedy Jr security
3:55:13
upping the security including drones overhead support for the president former president these are all things
3:55:19
that in hindsight should have been done the day before well let me try to answer your question this way of course as I said
3:55:26
you know the assessments of the level of security to be provided to individual protection no no I understand it's a
3:55:32
secret service decision but what I would say to you uh is that and I've been saying for quite some time uh including
3:55:38
in front of Committees of this Congress that we are in an elevated threat environment and we have been for some
3:55:43
time uh and that comes from a variety of quarters uh it is a it is quite frankly
3:55:49
a dangerous time to be a prominent public official in in regards to that the other side has spent a lot of
3:55:56
time talking about what people on the right have said but there was an
3:56:02
attempted assassination on the Supreme Court Justice we have had the highest ranking Senator on the other side of
3:56:09
this body uh saying that there were actions that they were accountable we have had multiple members of Congress in
3:56:17
both the house and the Senate uh berating the the character of uh members
3:56:24
of the Supreme Court as a result of their uh uh their their decisions made
3:56:31
both you know sometimes 63 sometimes unanimous whatever are those comments not any one
3:56:38
of them but are those comments and the generation of that sort of oh this guy's
3:56:45
bad for democracy this this Supreme Court Justice is a threat to democracy is that the kind of thing that raises
3:56:51
the Threat Level and would you caution against that well I I do believe that uh we've
3:56:58
seen an increase in threats of violence which again that's the FBI's Lane not rhetoric no matter how Despicable or
3:57:05
heated it is but violence and threats of violence we have seen an uptake in threats towards judges among other
3:57:11
prominent public officials including as you say a case that we helped investigate involving a threat to a
3:57:17
sitting Supreme Court Justice um an attempt an attempt yeah thank right um
3:57:24
and uh I think it's a reflection of a broader phenomenon than we are seeing in this country uh where people again very
3:57:31
passionate I respect that very angry I respect that but there's a right way and
3:57:36
a wrong way to express yourself when you're angry and and violence and
3:57:42
threats of violence just can't be it and that's where we fit in we it's not my
3:57:48
role as FBI director to call out you know particular people's rhetoric there's a place for that um but that's
3:57:55
that's not my role as FBI director but but when it turns to violence and threats of violence that is has to be
3:58:00
treated
as unacceptable and that's the way we look at it thank you Mr chairman I
yield back director when the FBI learned that Iran was threatening
3:58:06
president Trump's
3:58:11
life so I want to I want to be a little bit careful here not to talk about specific classified information but um
3:58:18
we have been for quite some time uh and I'll stick with what's in the open
3:58:23
record we for some time and I in particular for some time have been calling out uh the efforts by the
3:58:30
Iranian government to attempt to retaliate for the uh the killing of
3:58:37
solomani by going after uh current or former prominent Us official and we've
3:58:44
even had an indictment against it and I think that we need to recognize the
3:58:50
brazenness of the Iranian regime including right here in the United States and I expect that we're going to
3:58:56
see more of it and I expect there'll be more coming on that I'm not aware of any threat information uh related to protect
3:59:03
EES that wasn't you know passed in a timely way but I can't really get into specifics here it's it it it's
3:59:09
minority's time here but I I just felt that was a question the committee need to understand and it sounds like you've known that
3:59:14
for a long time and that information was conveyed to the Secret Service any information related to
3:59:21
threats against uh the former president which again as we've sort of talked about is um happens all too often is
3:59:29
something
that we have a whole process we we routinely share with secret service
at a number of levels in a timely way and to my knowledge that has
3:59:36
consistently been followed gentlemen from George is recognized thank you Mr chairman uh thank you for being here
3:59:42
director Ray um um director Ray the FBI
3:59:47
is the independent law enforcement agency under the Department of Justice
3:59:53
is that correct yes and does the FBI director
4:00:00
currently uh report to anyone well uh you mean in a chain of
4:00:07
command uh reporting structure kind of thing yeah so um the FBI is part of the justice department
4:00:14
uh on the orc chart you would see that the FBI director and this has been true for decades reports to the deputy
4:00:20
attorney general who reports to the attorney general obviously reports in a communication sense I I report to any
4:00:28
number of people as opposed to a micromanagement reporting system uh
4:00:35
correct and you would take issue would you not with
4:00:41
any proposal that would change or alter that chain of command and place you or
4:00:48
place a uh FBI director in the position of reporting directly to the president
4:00:54
would you not you would oppose that I I don't think that would be a wise
4:01:00
reporting structure um I think the structure that we've had for decades now
4:01:06
uh makes sense um I think there's a difference between Independence uh in a sort of
4:01:14
organizational structure perspective and Independence in terms of the way you do the work obviously thebi FBI is part of
4:01:20
the justice department reporting directly to the president would um uh
4:01:26
eliminate uh your Independence would it not I don't think it would help yeah and
4:01:31
you're familiar with uh project 2025 are you not I mean I've seen you know news
4:01:38
reports about it I'm not familiar with it you aware that it is a
4:01:44
game plan for president Trump's first 120 days in office correct I I'm really
4:01:51
not familiar with the details again I've seen reporting about it is it is and uh what he proposes to do is to force the
4:02:00
FBI director to appoint uh to uh report directly to him that's what he wants to
4:02:05
do within the first 120 days he also wants to eliminate the uh position of
4:02:12
FBI General counsil so that is also set forth in Project 2025 how would you
4:02:18
recommend that I think the FBI's office of General Council serves an incredibly important role including uh in terms of
4:02:27
advising our Workforce we have 38,000 people the idea of having uh an
4:02:32
organization like ours an independent law enforcement agency like ours that doesn't have its own general council's
4:02:37
office doesn't make sense to me well it would seem like any proposal that would
4:02:44
Force the director to report the to the president and then uh there would be no
4:02:52
legal counsel for the uh director of the FBI that that that uh seems like it's an
4:02:59
attempt to neuter the FBI and and render it uh uh accountable only to the
4:03:07
president isn't that correct well let me put it this way I recognize that the FBI director dor this
4:03:14
FBI director and FB FBI director before me serves at the pleasure of the
4:03:19
president uh and that's part of our system um I was appointed by President Trump um I
4:03:28
respect that that I think that's a part of our structure but Independence in terms of how we do our work is what
4:03:33
matters to me and we need to be able to do our work in a way that is free from political inter well you wouldn't be
4:03:38
able to do that by reporting everything you do to the president and getting his authority and approval before you take
4:03:46
action correct I don't think that would be a wise approach and then there's even
4:03:51
a proposal to replace many of those 38,000 uh dedicated uh civil servants
4:03:58
who work for the FBI replaced them with a Maga
4:04:06
group that has pledged its allegiance to Donald Trump what danger would that
4:04:12
bring to the FBI if that were to happen well again I I haven't read or reviewed
4:04:17
this thing that you're refering what I say is but the FBI is made up of the FBI
4:04:22
is made up of 38,000 dedicated career law enforcement professionals it has no
4:04:29
political appoes of any kind unless you count me as a nom I don't think that should change I
4:04:35
think that part of how we do our work being being the employees of the FBI
4:04:41
we're coming up on 116 years of the bi and that's the way it has been for 116 years crazy to take
4:04:48
38,000 Maga loyalist and put them at the FBI that's frightening that's what
4:04:54
project 2025 proposes and I'm glad to know that you are um not with uh that
4:05:02
program and with that I you back gentlemen y's back gentlemen from Florida is recognized was the shooter on
4:05:07
the FBI's radar in any way prior to the assassination attempt we did not have
4:05:12
any information about the shooter he was not in our Holdings um before the
4:05:17
shooting no communication in any chat rooms no CIS or confidential human
4:05:23
sources have any interaction with no we've run a a thorough search uh for the subject through all of our Holdings and
4:05:29
and he was not in them anywhere were there any FBI agents or informants present at the Trump rally in Butler not
4:05:36
to my knowledge okay uh and Mr Jordan was talking to you about Iran where law enforcement resources
4:05:44
diverted from the protection of President Trump to John Bolton as a
4:05:50
consequence of concern that Mr Bolton might have been the target of of Iranian
4:05:55
uh malign efforts uh that's really a secret service decision I don't I don't know
4:06:01
the answer to that uh that's really something they would know better what I can tell you is that um there are a
4:06:08
number of individuals you mentioned one who we've brought a case uh a specific Criminal case for the Iranians targeting
4:06:14
for assassination but how are you going are you going to get that answer to us whether or not resources were diverted
4:06:20
from Trump to Bolton is that just going to be part of your review I think that's going to be part of the reviews by the
4:06:25
inspector the Inspector General Inspector General for VHS right of DHS and the and the outside pan I think
4:06:32
that's
an important point because the Inspector General for DHS has really
fallen out of favor with the administration because he's been
4:06:37
pointing
out all the problems on the border with my orcus and Biden and we're
always kind of worried that they're about to fire him which would be a
4:06:44
really bad idea now that this role that you've identified is is so critical be be a bad idea to fire the IG for DHS
4:06:52
during
the pendency of this right Mr director I don't think that would be a
good idea I'm I'm with you on that so I want to zoom out a little bit
how often
4:06:58
do you brief President Biden uh you mean on this speci case no
4:07:07
in your role as FBI direct I mean I I don't know that I could give you a number I is it like weekly monthly daily
4:07:13
it's it's not it's not at a regular Cadence there have been times when there have been months at a time when I
4:07:18
haven't and then there have been times when several days apart I have um it's always with other people uh the vice
4:07:25
president is she typically there uh often has been okay so so when
4:07:31
did you notice his decline in my interactions in my role uh
4:07:39
all my interactions with the current president have been completely professional right but I mean his the
4:07:44
cognitive decline I don't saying he treated you unprofessionally just maybe not picking things up as quickly as he
4:07:50
used to again I I don't meet with him very often uh but what you're describing
4:07:55
is not something that I've observed during my interactions with him I mean we've we've had it observed so often
4:08:01
that the ranking member and Mr Schiff on this committee have said that he could no longer continue as a candidate and so
4:08:07
since you're the FBI director I was just sort of wondering like who's running the country
4:08:15
something if something yeah so if something bad happened you'd have to go brief President Biden about it right now
4:08:23
God forbid and I on any number of occasions I have briefed the president and as I said those briefings have all
4:08:29
been uneventful and unremarkable oh I I I could imagine them being uneventful um
4:08:34
the but but in in the work where the vice president's also present like you
4:08:40
say
there's like more than half the time there's these briefings she's
there too I don't know if i' said more than half a Time certainly there
have been times
4:08:46
where
she's been present there have been other times where she hasn't I take
you at your word when you say this is the most complicated threat
4:08:53
environment you've ever observed over a long career in law enforcement and I'm
4:08:58
just kind of wondering with this assassination attempt with the invasion at our border with all the Hamas that
4:09:04
have been LED in that you've talked about and briefed about like is Biden up to it and if he's not up to it and
4:09:13
you're guy who's been regularly briefing him like who who's been in on this
4:09:18
conspiracy to hide the real Joe Biden from all of us for years it never
4:09:23
occurred to you that this guy wasn't up to it in all these briefings you did as
4:09:29
I said my briefings with the president have all been completely fine um were
4:09:34
they between 10 a.m. questions there hasn't been anything of note in the area that you're talking about yeah did did
4:09:40
you ever have to brief him before 10:00 a.m. or after 400 p.m. we hear those are as good
4:09:46
hours I can't I certainly times that I have briefed have included outside those
4:09:51
hours right okay I just you know I I think the American people want to know
4:09:57
how we got to this point with someone who's very so diminished his own party
4:10:02
has basically put him out to pasture and since you had close proximity and the vice president had close proximity I'm
4:10:08
just
kind of wondering if uh if you were being straight with all of us about
how things were going with him I guess we'll have to figure that out
you can counter
4:10:13
me to be straight with you sir we'll see gentleman y's back gentleman from
4:10:18
Tennessee is recognized thank you firstly I'd like to recognize unfortunately the fact that our
4:10:23
colleague and my colleagues side by side made for many many years in this committee Sheila Jackson Le is no longer
4:10:29
with us she was a great member and a force for America and her losses has
4:10:34
felt and great secondly I'd like to say to the FBI director that there were some
4:10:40
remarks made when you were introduced preemptory remarks saying that people don't have great faith in the FBI and
4:10:46
etc etc etc I have great faith in the FBI and I think most of us on this side of the aisle do we appreciate your work
4:10:53
and you appreciate your being here some on the other side of the aisle have cast dispersions upon the FBI and upon law
4:10:59
enforcement and if they don't want to support law enforcement that's their business but I support law enforcement
4:11:04
and the FBI is the top rank of law enforcement our country so I thank you and and all of your people that work
4:11:10
with you secondly there's been some questions about the FBI may be being weaponized did President Biden ever ask
4:11:17
you to get involved in the case in Orlando Florida where Kevin McCarthy says that Mr Gates has investigated for
4:11:24
some sexual involvement with a 17-year-old girl did did the president or anybody in the Democratic party as Mr
4:11:31
McCarthy has suggested weaponized you and tried to get you involved in that case no sir good thank you I just wanted
4:11:38
to make sure of that um Butler Pennsylvania I read something about a
4:11:43
ladder he used a ladder to get up up on that roof and that the ladder was found somewhere a distance away is that
4:11:50
true uh so we do know that he purchased a ladder um uh I think if I recall
4:11:57
correctly it was about a 5 foot uh tall type of ladder uh but importantly we did
4:12:05
not find the ladder at the scene uh so it's not clear that he used
4:12:11
the ladder uh to get on top of the roof Ro we still digging into all that uh things related to the ladder and his
4:12:17
access to the roof but he did buy a ladder but the ladder was not found at the the scene ladder didn't have any
4:12:24
feet on it it didn't walk off right thank you sir there have been
4:12:29
a lot of threats against public officials we've seen Mr scalesa terribly shot and we' saw Gabby gford shot and
4:12:35
other Congress people and many of us have had death threats and uh the FBI has I been made aware of those to Pro
4:12:41
help protect us and I appreciate that greatly but we've also had election officials and pole workers threatened
4:12:47
what is the FBI doing in consultation with other law enforcement to ensure every eligible voter can safely and
4:12:52
confident confidently cast a ballot this year so when it comes to threats to
4:12:58
election workers in particular uh you know we participate in the election threats task force that doj set up uh we
4:13:07
also uh and there have been a number quite a number already of arrests and convictions uh under that task force uh
4:13:15
we have got a number of Investigations underway that involve all kinds of threats to election workers ranging from
4:13:21
online threats to uh there was even some mailings that included fenel uh so
4:13:27
there's been a number of types of threats to election workers and these are after all people who are putting in
4:13:32
their own time for the good of the country to try to help us have a functioning democracy and so the idea
4:13:37
that they would be targeted with violence uh is just outrageous we are
4:13:43
sharing information with election officials about things to be on the lookout for we have election crime
4:13:50
coordinators and all 50 you'll be prepared for election day with additional FBI will be looking out for
4:13:56
yes thank you thank you um Jeffrey Epstein uh been in the news a lot lately
4:14:03
about his involvement with certain people high in politics involved did the
4:14:08
FBI conduct the raid on his uh townhouse in New York when he was uh incarcerated in in New York there was a raid on his
4:14:16
East Side townhouse well I don't know about a raid I I I know we executed a number of
4:14:22
searches in the course of our fairly extensive investigation related you tell me during that search if you came across
4:14:28
and have within your the possession of the FBI tapes of him with other
4:14:33
individuals that he might have taken in people in compromising yeah I don't I
4:14:39
don't know that there's anything I can share related to that I can see if there's information we could provide and
4:14:44
maybe get back to you on it um if there were tapes of people in prominent positions friends of his he post for
4:14:49
pictures with possibly in compromising positions it would be the public I think has a right to see
4:14:55
those well I mean how we handle evidence recovered in a criminal investigation uh
4:15:00
has all kinds of rules that apply to it uh I recognize the intense public interest in the subject but we'd have to
4:15:06
follow
our rules but I'm happy like I said I'm happy to follow up with my team
on it thank you sir and I appreciate your service and uh and uh thank
you for
4:15:14
being here today gentleman yield the last
4:15:20
five
chair now recognize the gentleman from Arizona thank you m thank you Mr
chairman and thank you director Ray for being here how many shots did
the
4:15:26
shooter fire well we we know that he fired at
4:15:32
least eight because we recovered eight cartridges on the roof okay and are all
4:15:37
the the cartridges and the unspent bullets have they been you know how many
4:15:42
there are you've accounted for all of those I assume yeah we believe we have
4:15:49
we believe we have again there's was lots of work still ongoing but yes we believe we have accounted and did the
4:15:54
recovered shells the cartridges match the shooter's rifle my recollection is yes okay and
4:16:01
you conducted analysis that confirms that uh well we work with ATF but yes
4:16:07
there so so some of the work has been divided up but and uh how many shells uh casings were covered from the location
4:16:13
of
the counter snipers I'm sorry I couldn't hear the last part uh from the
counter snipers location uh that I don't have the answer
4:16:20
at least here at my fingertips okay um would did The Blood and Tissue
4:16:27
pattern of the shooter did it match the stories or the the witness testimony that you've heard so
4:16:34
far can you uh well I'm not sure I'm following the the question well you I
4:16:41
assume you've interviewed the counter snipers do you have that evidence and other Witnesses describing uh the the
4:16:48
the kill of the shooter um and I'm wondering if the The
4:16:53
Blood and Tissue and brain matter is consistent with the testimony that
4:16:59
you're
receiving in other words it's the physical in terms of the manner of
death exactly it's the physical evidence consistent with where the shot
from the
4:17:06
counter took place yeah so um so the autopsy is being handled by uh as it's
4:17:12
not on usual the state authorities uh my understanding is uh thus far I don't
4:17:19
think it's fully complete uh which is not again not totally unusual uh but so far uh nothing remarkable uh on that on
4:17:28
that front that's that's from the body itself but from actually the scene where the shooter was found is everything
4:17:34
consistent with the testimony the physical evidence at the scene is that consistent with the testimony you've
4:17:40
seen that you've heard so far uh so far yes again ongoing
4:17:45
investigation were you able to determine whether the shooter took the gun uh up with him when he climbed up to
4:17:53
the top of the roof or was it already placed there somewhere so that is something that we're drilling into right
4:17:59
now uh that we don't know the answer to yet I can tell you which may be relevant though to your question that um and I
4:18:06
don't think this has been reported yet that the uh weapon had a collapsible
4:18:11
stock which could explain uh why it might have been less easy for
4:18:17
people to observe you know because one of the things that we're finding is people have observed him the first
4:18:22
people to observe him with the weapon were when he was already on the roof and we haven't yet found anybody with
4:18:28
firsthand uh observation of him with the weapon walking around beforehand so that
4:18:34
doesn't mean he wasn't obviously but but the collapsible stock is is potentially
4:18:39
a very significant feature that might be relevant to that did he have a
4:18:44
scope I I believe so but I just as I sit here right now I don't remember okay um
4:18:50
you you mentioned uh about two hours before the incident that that he' had a
4:18:55
drone and he was using a drone i instead of me putting words in your mouth just tell me what how you
4:19:02
discovered the Drone how you discovered that the time um and what how you
4:19:08
discovered if you can describe what he would have been observing with the Drone and how you determined that please so
4:19:14
this is a something that's uh very much ongoing right now we're going back and forth with our lab as they continue to
4:19:20
do work on it what I would say is the Drone was in his car uh as I said we've
4:19:25
been able to by exploiting the Drone uh determine you know its use and flight
4:19:31
path there were no uh pictures or videos on the Drone of uh of the day of the
4:19:38
rally for example but we have been able to to reverse engineer the flight path
4:19:43
of the Drone from the day of the rally and that's how we know that for about 11
4:19:48
minutes from I think it's around 350 p.m. to 400 p.m. somewhere in that range
4:19:54
he was flying the Drone and we have the flight path it's about 200 yard away
4:19:59
from where former president Trump would ultimately be speaking uh and so that
4:20:04
would have primarily given him advantage point um trying to think how to describe
4:20:10
this if if the former president Podium is that way yeah the Drone would be uh
4:20:17
over here looking you know say 200 yards again off this way looking back so it
4:20:23
would have shown the shooter we think again this we're still doing more work on this I really want to qualify what
4:20:29
I'm saying but I'm trying to be transparent and lean in here we think it would have shown him uh kind of what
4:20:36
would have been behind him when you say behind him behind the the shooter correct like in other words
4:20:42
almost like giving him a rearview mirror of the the scene behind him except again he wasn't flying it overhead while he
4:20:49
was later back for the assassination but he would have had uh with the Drone he would have been able to also assess kind
4:20:57
of where because the stage I assume was already said he' been able to assess that angle with the rooftop as well
4:21:03
forward and backward I assume well certainly going towards the towards the podium again we're still trying to
4:21:09
figure out exactly what he saw cuz we're having to an effect because there's no recording of what he saw during those 11
4:21:15
minutes you know our hypothesis at this point the experts think he would have been live streaming it and so we're
4:21:21
trying to in effect say okay if this was the flight pattern given these capabilities of the Drone what would you
4:21:27
have seen what could you have seen for those 11 minutes and again it's it wasn't over the the stage or the the
4:21:34
kind of the Hub of the rally was about 200 yard away but it looks like it would have been
4:21:40
looking let's say you know length of a football field or so more you know kind of towards towards the the podium great
4:21:47
thank you Mr how many separate times was the shooter on the premises uh so again with the caveat
4:21:55
that were continued to do work on it we we believe that the first time he traveled to the the grounds uh was I
4:22:04
think a week before uh and he spent roughly 20 minutes there uh then he went to the
4:22:11
grounds again uh on the morning of the event it appears uh for about 70 minutes
4:22:20
I think but again I I qualify that I'd have to go back and look to be sure of that part um and then he came back in
4:22:27
the afternoon so that would be I guess a third time um for good uh but that
4:22:33
included uh things like this drone activity we just talked about gentleman from uh California recognized thank you
4:22:40
Mr chairman um director thank you than you for appearing thank you for the extraordinary job that you're doing uh
4:22:46
please convey our thanks to the men and women at the Bureau for their incredible work um I've worked with them since I
4:22:52
was an assistant us attorney uh more than 30 years ago um let me start with a threshold question I'm curious about um
4:22:59
when I applied to be an assistant us attorney I had to go through a background check um do candidates for
4:23:05
the FBI have to go through background checks yes uh would someone with dozens
4:23:12
of felony convictions survive a background check for the bureau no so
4:23:18
they would never be hired by The Bureau no um well clearly the bureau has you don't
4:23:26
have to comment on this I know you won't but clearly the bureau has higher standards for their hiring than one of
4:23:31
America's great political parties um let me turn to the events of the the tragic
4:23:39
shooting um have you been able to gain ACC access to the shooters electronic
4:23:45
communications uh social media and with the caveats that you mentioned that investigation is still early have you
4:23:52
been able to make any deductions or um are there any indications of the shooters motivation from those
4:23:59
electronic uh Holdings so in terms of our ability to
4:24:04
access it we have uh been able to um get into and exploit a number of electronic
4:24:11
devices digital devices but not all of them yet and then within uh his various accounts we've been able
4:24:17
to
get access to some of them but some of them we're still waiting on some
of them we may never get access to because of the encryption issue uh
that it
4:24:25
presents an increasingly uh vexing barrier for law enforcement not just the FBI but for law
4:24:30
enforcement all over the country uh but so we're still drilling into that uh we have some information some places we've
4:24:37
been able to look some places we will be able to look some places we may never be able to see no matter how good our legal
4:24:43
process is but that's what we're looking at right now in terms of what we've been able to find so far a lot of the usual
4:24:50
uh repositories of information have not yielded um anything notable in terms of
4:24:57
motive uh or like ideology having said that it does appear
4:25:03
fairly clear uh that he was interested in public figures kind of more broadly
4:25:09
and and I think this is important that that uh starting uh somewhere around uh July 6th
4:25:18
or so he became very focused on uh former president Trump on this
4:25:24
rally um and so one of the things that I can share here today that has not been shared yet is that we've just in the
4:25:31
last couple days uh found that from our review to your point about devices uh
4:25:38
analysis of a laptop that the investigation t to the shooter uh
4:25:44
reveals that on July 6th he did a Google search for quote how far away was Oswald
4:25:54
from Kennedy um and so that's a search
4:26:00
obviously is significant in terms of his state of mind um we that is the same day that it
4:26:08
appears that he registered for the butler rally and when you say that his uh
4:26:16
electronic Holdings indicated an interest in different public figures without uh revealing anything you're not
4:26:22
comfortable revealing about those public figures can you tell us anything generally about them um either the
4:26:29
offices they hold their political party or was it simply people of a high
4:26:37
profile uh well a couple things first the um
4:26:46
the images that we've recovered so far from I can't remember which of his various devices were appear to be what
4:26:53
we call cached images from searches of news articles so if you do a news
4:26:58
article search of course image you if there are photos on it those photos get
4:27:03
stored automatically in your cache as opposed to me searching or him searching for a specific person and getting up
4:27:10
images of that person uh as far as the pictures that are like that there's
4:27:16
doesn't seem to be a whole lot of Rhyme or Reason to it so far other than these
4:27:21
are you know all prominent public people but they they cover both parties they
4:27:26
cover both um uh us people and even some
4:27:33
foreign uh public officials uh so that part doesn't appear to that that one
4:27:39
repository of information doesn't appear to be overly indicative of motive other than interest in in public figures but
4:27:47
that could be just because he was reading news stories so we're still trying to drill into that that's why all
4:27:52
these outstanding uh legal process returns that we're waiting on for various
4:27:57
accounts platforms Etc you know any one of them could be a one that would have very indicative very important
4:28:04
information if I could permitted one very short additional question chairman uh from that any indication of any other
4:28:11
particular Target that is someone who uh was not just sort of generically the
4:28:17
subject of the searches you described but for which there was more of an interest than
4:28:22
others there's the information I just described at the moment does not appear
4:28:27
prly indicative of targeting um in its own right uh but again that dot once we
4:28:35
get other information could connect in a way that might be more meaningful but uh I really I'm sharing that piece of
4:28:41
information with this committee and with the American public but I think it's important that we put down a
4:28:46
qualification this does not appear to be some kind of Target list or something like that this is cached images from
4:28:52
running searches of news stories um and again there's nothing at the moment that there's no pattern from
4:28:58
that particular piece of information that is overly remarkable so far thank you thank you chairman G y's back
4:29:04
gentleman from California is recognized Mr director You' previously told us that you consider the situation on the
4:29:11
southern border to be a massive security threat to our country is is that still your assessment I I stand by my prior
4:29:17
testimony and in fact um just uh in the last uh month or so um we've you know
4:29:26
conducted a significant uh series of arrests I say we our joint terrorism task force is working with ice of a
4:29:32
number of individuals uh with suspected International terrorism ties and I have
4:29:38
also been very vocal about the fact that U since and this is really since the last time I appeared uh before you uh
4:29:46
that we are increasingly concerned about the possibility not just of a of a
4:29:51
foreign terrorist inspired attack which is very much very much a concern but the
4:29:57
even the potential for a coordinated foreign terrorist attack perhaps like what we've seen uh against the concert
4:30:04
hall in Russia for example but just here in the United States well the the the the 19 suicide bombers overstate Visa
4:30:12
were responsible for 3,000 American deaths on on 9/11 what's your best estimate of the number of foreign
4:30:18
terrorists who are now in our country I don't I mean I don't know that I could give you that number uh what I
4:30:24
can tell you is uh we have lots of foreign terrorism related
4:30:30
investigations uh but that doesn't mean that all of them came in you know illegally or anything anything like that
4:30:36
it seems to me the the the simplest Act of terrorism would be for for uh dozens of gorillas to attack low security high
4:30:44
density venues for example Friday night High School football games all across the country at the same hour uh with
4:30:51
bombs and automatic uh uh weapons that would produce thousands of casualties from coast to coast in a matter of
4:30:58
minutes uh How likely is such a scenario well what you're describing uh
4:31:04
would require of course a lot of coordination uh but what I will tell you and I think you're on to a particularly
4:31:09
important point from my perspective which is that that uh unlike the 9/11 attacks which again I was in FBI
4:31:16
headquarters on the day of 9/11 and so I remember it vividly and I've spent plenty of time in the period after that
4:31:22
in my prior positions engaged with the families and the victims but uh what
4:31:28
we're seeing more and more with the foreign terrorist threat and frankly also the domestic uh terrorism threat is
4:31:34
a focus on kind of like what you're talking about what I would call soft targets which is really for the American
4:31:39
people's benefit just intelligence Community speak for where everyday people live their everyday lives what
4:31:45
terrorist groups have now infiltrated our country that you're tracking well in I don't know that I
4:31:52
would say infiltrated we have uh investigations as we speak that relate
4:31:58
to Isis and its Affiliates we have investigations as we speak that relate to Al-Qaeda we have investigations as we
4:32:05
speak that relate to al-shabab we have investigations as we speak that relate
4:32:12
to U the Iranian proxies Hezbollah uh and so the frankly even the irgc cuds
4:32:19
force itself what what foreign criminal uh gangs uh are now in our
4:32:25
country that you're most concerned with well foreign criminal gangs I mean I we
4:32:31
obviously have investigations a lot of Investigations into you know gangs like ms3 for example uh and some of its
4:32:40
counterparts uh although I think if you were to talk to most Chiefs and sheriffs like I'm doing every week uh we
4:32:47
shouldn't underestimate uh how prevalent neighborhood gangs are really it's a lot of the gang violence that I'm concerned
4:32:54
about those that we've allowed in through the southern border and what threat they are now posing uh uh do you
4:33:00
believe that the vetting performed at the Southwest border is adequate to ensure uh that aliens with terrorists or
4:33:05
or criminal gang ties are not being released into the United States well I it's not me for me to
4:33:12
speak to the vetting what I would tell you is that uh you have to deal with it once they're released in the United
4:33:18
States and and one of the concerns that I have uh which I touched on briefly in
4:33:23
my opening um is there's been a lot of focus on the number of known or
4:33:28
suspected terrorists encountered at the border and that number has increased over the last five or six years and that
4:33:34
should be of concern but frankly to me the bigger concern is individuals who
4:33:41
who weren't uh either weren't on the watch list at the time they came in because
4:33:48
there wasn't information known yet that ties them to terrorism and it's only after they get in that some new piece of
4:33:54
information develops somewhere overseas and now we know that's we've been warned that that they basically vet against a
4:34:01
blank sheet of paper if they they don't have a record in this country uh border patrol probably doesn't have uh any any
4:34:07
uh record they're releasing in the country you find out later of of of the dangers or or if they use fake documents
4:34:14
and there aren't Biometrics to to uh you know connect them you know sometimes I think sometimes there are people who
4:34:21
come in who because of the nature of the threat information that put somebody on
4:34:26
the watch list there wasn't you know fingerprints from the person at the time because not every piece of intelligence
4:34:32
comes with fingerprints so then the guy comes in using fake ID and of course and
4:34:37
there's
no reason to connect them and of course the 2 million Goda ways you
know absolutely nothing about exactly well I don't I don't know about
4:34:44
absolutely
nothing because we may come across them in other things I mean one of
the key parts of our Collective defense here uh is that we work with
4:34:53
800,000 uh sworn law enforcement across the country and we train them on the right questions to ask and things like
4:34:58
that so that we can build in additional eyes and ears if they you know do a traffic stop or whatever happens to be
4:35:05
we run a greater chance of leveraging all that to pick up people who may have slipped through the cracks
4:35:11
you's back the gentleman from California is recognized director we're about a 100
4:35:17
days until the election Russia has attacked our democracy in past elections
4:35:23
are they seeking to do it in this one uh we assess that the Russian
4:35:31
government continues to want to influence uh and in various ways
4:35:36
interfere with our democracy uh with our electoral process in fact uh just in the
4:35:42
last few weeks we announced a significant disruption of a uh
4:35:48
generative AI enhanced uh social media you know bot Farm essentially of the
4:35:55
Russians uh that was design designed to be an influence operation uh and some of
4:36:01
the fake fictitious profiles of uh of those Bots purported to be us persons so
4:36:07
they're still at it uh we've seen that in election site after election cycle do
4:36:13
the Russians have a preferred candidate uh I'm not sure that I could speak to that uh here but certainly what
4:36:19
I
would tell you is it's not just the Russians uh and I think that's
important for people to know too there's a lot of attention to the
Russians as there
4:36:25
should be um but we also know uh you may recall that uh in 2020 uh director
4:36:33
ratliffe and I announced uh an effort by the Iranians to try to interfere and
4:36:38
more recently we've had indictments uh related to China
4:36:43
34 Chinese MPS officers creating fictitious personas posting
4:36:51
false information online uh full of narratives designed to sew divis this
4:36:57
Discord undermine us and I'm talking about narratives that they were pushing again purporting to be Americans but
4:37:04
actually Chinese MPS officers uh for example trashing any suggestion that Co
4:37:10
came from a lab leak or uh trashing uh US law enforcement on the occasion of
4:37:17
the anniversary of George Floyd's um death and shifting to the attempted
4:37:23
assassination on the former president I want to make it clear in America violence has never been the answer not
4:37:30
on a certain day in January or a recent day in July and I just want to go
4:37:36
through the shooting just briefly with you how many armed
4:37:41
officers were within the perimeter just ballpark figure you know that really goes to the security posture which is
4:37:49
the subject of the inspector the DHS inspector General's review and the outside panel independent panel that's
4:37:56
been would you say probably more than 100 now I have to believe that number but I don't again I don't have that
4:38:01
number at my fingertips our focus is on the shooter and and his attack and the shooter was able to get eight shots off
4:38:08
before he was killed that's what it would appear yes type of we weapon used by the shooter was an assault rifle was
4:38:14
an AR style rifle so that means one trigger pull one round is that right essentially do you like to shoot
4:38:22
do I yeah yeah yes do you know the difference between an AR and a bolt
4:38:27
action rifle I'm not going to try to sit here and engage on sort of firearms expertise but um but I fired a variety
4:38:35
of weapons but had the shooter used a bolt action rifle would that have been one uh one trigger pull one round round
4:38:42
that's my understanding there would there had to have been more well on an
4:38:47
assault rifle trigger pole round trigger pole round bolt action non- assault rifle what's the difference is it faster
4:38:55
slower he was able to get more rounds off more quickly than he would have with other kinds of
4:39:00
weapons and that's my point is that we can add additional resources to
4:39:07
protect political candidates and we should the people who went to that rally deserved to be protected from gun
4:39:15
violence just like the students at Parkland deserve to be protected from gun violence just like the babies at
4:39:21
Sandy Hook deserve to be protected from gun violence so we'll devote devote more
4:39:26
resources we've added a presidential candidate who is also now protected but if we're being honest with
4:39:33
ourselves we have armed this country to the teeth and we have allowed the most
4:39:39
dangerous people to have access to the most dangerous weapons I say that as a
4:39:46
parent
of a seven-year-old and a 5-year-old and a two-year-old the two oldest
who have done multiple Mass shooter drills in their classrooms I say
4:39:52
that as a brother to two police officers who walk a very violent beat and I say that as an elected official who believes
4:39:59
that my colleagues deserve to be as safe as I deserve to be when we are at
4:40:04
political ralles and so we really need to step back and think if we allow these weapons to be in our country can we
4:40:11
truly protect our elected officials and can we truly protect most importantly
4:40:16
our children and the Next Generation now yiel back gentleman yields back it is good to
4:40:23
have Mr Massie back with us today some of us had a chance to go to Kentucky over the last few weeks and visit with
4:40:30
Thomas and his family and hear all kinds of wonderful stories about Ronda amazing amazing lady U Gentle Spirit and U we
4:40:38
are glad to have Mr Massie back with us and uh next five minutes Belong To You Congressman thank you chairman um
4:40:44
director Ray how many counter snipers were present at the rally that day and which of the counter snipers took the
4:40:51
shot that took out the wouldbe Assassin uh I don't I don't have the
4:40:56
number of counter snipers I know it was a secret service counter sniper who who took the uh the shot that uh eliminated
4:41:04
the shooter um we've conducted a number of interviews including of of him so not
4:41:10
it was it one of the two that we see in the videos on top of the roof or was it a different location that I'm afraid I
4:41:17
don't have that at my fingertips here okay you mentioned that U the wouldbe Assassin bought a 5- foot ladder you
4:41:23
have a credit card evidence of that but it looks like on the scene there was a larger ladder that he might have used do
4:41:30
you know which ladder he used to get to the roof and do you have possession of that 5 foot ladder and the other ladder
4:41:37
and do you know how the taller ladder got to the scene so this whole business
4:41:42
about the ladder is something we're drilling into more um uh we do have possession uh of the uh the 5-ft ladder
4:41:50
that he purchased um close in time to his attempted assassination uh that
4:41:57
we' traced the purchase of that ladder from a receipt a bloodied receipt uh
4:42:03
that he had on him at the time his body was recovered on the roof um uh we do
4:42:10
not yet know for sure how exactly he got up on the roof we're looking at you know
4:42:16
various forensic pieces to try to kind of piece that together so more to come on that do um do you know where the 5-
4:42:21
foot ladder was found or retrieved was near the roof or was it in still in his vehicle uh neither um I I I don't have
4:42:30
it in front of me but I know that it was not uh I know that it was not on scene and I know that it was not in his
4:42:37
vehicle uh but I can we can Circle back to you and get that um is there any
4:42:42
evidence at all that he may have been in contact with somebody else before this occurred that may have had any prior
4:42:49
knowledge or may have helped him plan this event well needless to say that
4:42:55
that is a question that we're intensely focused on because that would obviously be incredibly meaningful so far
4:43:02
underline so far we have not found any evidence uh of any accomplice or
4:43:08
co-conspirators uh foreign or domestic and you're using geolocation data to see
4:43:14
if his cell phone was near another cell phone I presume right we're doing lots of different kinds of cellular analysis
4:43:21
uh geolocation stuff looking at his accounts uh he he from everything we've
4:43:27
seen um which is consistent with what we've learned in interviews you know a
4:43:32
lot of people describe him as a loner that does kind of fit with what we're seeing in his devices you know his his
4:43:39
list of contacts for example uh is very short you know compared to
4:43:44
what you would normally see from from most people so it doesn't appear to be a whole lot of interaction between him uh
4:43:51
you know face to face or digital with a lot of people okay thank you that doesn't mean there's not any and that's
4:43:57
why we're drilling into we're trying to talk to anybody who's had any engagement with him whatsoever digital you know in
4:44:02
person classmates co-workers right Etc appreciate that and now I want to talk about another possible assassination
4:44:09
attempt and I'll start by showing a a video of President Biden and this is from Recently this is in the last month
4:44:17
if the we can play that Gallow erected to hang the vice president Mike
4:44:22
Pence I think it's fair to say it's one of the darkest days in the history of America okay and he's he's referring to
4:44:30
January 6 were there Gallows erected to hang Mike Pence as the President says
4:44:37
here uh I'm not aware of any physical Gallows I can't remember whether from a
4:44:43
demonstration perspective there may not have been some um um kind of replica or or a symbol of
4:44:50
something like that that's that's my impression can we show uh can you raise that up so you can see it it looks like
4:44:57
there there was some kind of prop that was built the the construction doesn't
4:45:02
look like it lends itself to actually hanging somebody it's more of a prop I
4:45:07
think as you suggested that was erected on January 6 um but if the president were correct
4:45:14
that the these Gallows were erected to hang Mike Pence that would be a very serious allegation wouldn't
4:45:21
it I would take it very seriously yes is has anybody been arrested or do you have
4:45:28
any leads in conjunction with the erection of this um Gall we had a picture here on the screen if you can
4:45:34
show it uh again it was just up there there was there's an individual here
4:45:40
who's seen on near this these Gallows has he been arrested have you identified
4:45:45
this person you know I don't I don't know that I could speak to this specific person or or the uh The Gallows that are
4:45:53
pictured on the image you know we have had I think 850 people who have pled guilty uh to federal crimes uh related
4:46:00
to January 6 and I think uh you know another 180 I think it is convicted uh
4:46:06
at trials um so I just I can't be sure and some of them merely for going into
4:46:12
the capital but here the president suggests that individual intended to hang vice president Pence U which is
4:46:21
seems like kind of a wild claim myself given the construction of those Gallows but if we are to take him seriously or
4:46:28
even if we aren't we're let me just finish by saying this if you have no leads or
4:46:33
you're not sure if anybody who erected those Gallows was arrested or is being
4:46:39
investigated uh you know were there any confidential
4:46:44
human uh sources involved from the FBI or any other agency in the erection of
4:46:51
that prop those Gallows I'm not aware of anything like that all right thank you I yield back gentleman Yi's back uh
4:46:58
General lady from Washington is recognized thank you Mr chairman welcome director Ray political violence of any
4:47:04
kind is dangerous unlawful and totally unacceptable just as we all watched and
4:47:09
then un equivocally condemned the attempted assassination attempt on our
4:47:15
former president I wish that we could all come together to unequivocally
4:47:20
condemn the act of political violence on January 6th instead of Defending props
4:47:26
that were used that were harmful dangerous props of gallows attempting to
4:47:32
show what people wanted to do to vice president Pence extremists attempted to
4:47:37
subvert our democracy and the worst assault on the US Capital since the War of 1812 many of us were trapped in the
4:47:44
gallery that day we feared we would not make it out insurrectionists were chasing down former speaker Nancy Pelosi
4:47:52
and then vice president Mike Pence and I myself have been the direct Target of political violence when an armed man
4:47:58
with a gun showed up at my door threatened me and my family and we
4:48:03
actually ended up having to move our home so I understand the increased tenor of
4:48:11
political violence that is racking our country it has been on the rise fermented by violent and dehumanizing
4:48:18
rhetoric from Top public officials including the former president and members of Congress sadly and bolstered
4:48:25
by the proliferation of easily accessible guns including assault style
4:48:30
weapons all of this violence is unacceptable and I wholeheartedly condemn it I just hope we condemn all of
4:48:37
the violence not just one or two incidents Mr Ray today I want to focus on the role
4:48:44
of the FBI and the need for the bureau to remain politically neutral and independent the FBI cannot and should
4:48:51
not be subject to the whims of any president the majority apparently doesn't think that the FBI needs to be
4:48:58
politically neutral and independent they want an FBI subordinate to the president not accountable to the American people
4:49:05
that is one part of a larger plan to undermine our democracy to remove the
4:49:10
checks and balance balances that have protected us and ultimately to subvert our freedoms that agenda promulgated by
4:49:17
the former president his Loyalists and their Mega allies is called project 2025
4:49:23
it is publicly available online I encourage everyone who's watching this to Google it it includes plans to
4:49:30
undermine every part of our government including the FBI Trump's project 2025
4:49:36
agenda says that the director of the FBI must must not be independent of politics
4:49:42
but instead must do whatever the president orders under Trump's project 2025 Trump loyalists would undermine the
4:49:50
non-political and independent structure of the FBI project 2025 openly calls on
4:49:57
the next conservative Administration to support quote a vast expansion of the
4:50:02
number of political appointees in every office across the doj especially the FBI
4:50:09
and so Mr Ray given your extensive experience as a law enforcement professional at doj across multiple
4:50:15
Republican and Democratic administrations why do you think it's important that the FBI maintain
4:50:21
political independence from the president I think the FBI is and needs
4:50:27
to stay independent and that means protecting the American people without fear or favor upholding the Constitution
4:50:35
and the rule of law and it means following the facts wherever they lead no matter who likes it and I add that
4:50:40
last part because the essence of Independence and objectivity is not that an
4:50:47
investigation is going to always yield the result you want our independence and objectivity
4:50:53
can't only be respected when you like the outcome that's the very essence of
4:50:58
objectivity
sometimes you're going to like the result sometimes you're not going to
like the result that applies to everyone including us any number of
4:51:05
times we're disappointed and frustrated by the results of our investigations but the alternative is erosion of the rule
4:51:12
of law where the only thing that distinguishes uh one investigation for another is power and that's what you see
4:51:19
in some of authoritarian countries around the world so I'm not familiar with this particular no I I I didn't ask
4:51:25
you pro25 thing I don't know anything about it but I what I can tell you is from my perspective the FBI needs to be
4:51:34
uh
functioning is independent doesn't mean it's not part of the executive
branch it doesn't mean the FBI director doesn't serve at the pleasure of
the
4:51:39
president
but it do mean that the way we do our work has to be OB has to be
independent yeah thank you I have I have another question about the role
of
4:51:46
Attorneys at the FBI office of general counsel um how do we protect that
4:51:52
work I'm sorry could you repeat the question the role uh what role do the attorneys at the FBI office of General
4:51:58
Council play in ensuring that the bureau respects the constitutional rights of American citizens how do we protect that
4:52:04
work so uh the in my experience the lawyers in the office of general counsel
4:52:11
uh play an incredibly important role in ensuring that our agents have their questions uh about how to comply with
4:52:18
the law and conducting their work answered uh and ensuring that we conduct our work in the right way which means
4:52:25
scrupulously adhering to the laws and the rules that apply to us I just wanted to say before I yield Mr chairman that
4:52:32
the the project 2025 also eliminates the FBI's office of general counsel in-house lawyers who are responsible for that
4:52:39
role
I appreciate your Indulgence and I yield back J lady Yi's back
gentlemen from Wisconsin's recn yeah thank you Mr chairman uh I think it
was when you were
4:52:46
here December of last year um Mr Ray that uh you said blinking lights were
4:52:51
going off in regards to the southern border and what is happening down there um has the Border situation improved in
4:52:58
terms of your assessment with the security of Americans since you were last here in
4:53:05
December well I guess a couple things and I appreciate appreciate the question so first the the blinking L lights
4:53:12
comment that I made uh refers more broadly to the threat environment that I'm seeing as FBI director across a wide
4:53:19
range of threats contributing to that in a variety of ways are the threats that
4:53:25
emanate from the border so it's not not a comment just on the border issues it's it's the threat environment that we face
4:53:30
more broadly in my experience in law enforcement um I am increasingly
4:53:36
concerned that uh foreign terrorists could seek to exploit
4:53:43
vulnerabilities uh at our Southwest border or at other ports of Entry or in
4:53:48
other aspects of our immigration system uh to facilitate an attack here in the
4:53:54
United States I think that is something we have to be concerned about there's been a lot of focus on numbers numbers
4:54:00
of this numbers of that and I understand that but uh as I think was referenced in
4:54:05
an earlier question it doesn't take very many foreign terrorists
4:54:11
to be a real problem we had 19 hijackers responsible for the 9/11 attacks uh and
4:54:17
we just not that long ago had a case some of the members of the committee will remember where we charged an
4:54:23
individual for trying to smuggle individuals in to uh assassinate former
4:54:28
President Bush are are you concerned that um the border of Patrol Chief former border of Patrol Chief Rodney
4:54:33
Scott said that he was very he was concerned about very very minuscule data that they were receiving so there's all
4:54:41
this um we are told that um illegal aliens are vetted against databases but
4:54:48
oftentimes they're doing Biometrics as they come into this country but not looking behind it in their home
4:54:54
countries does that concern you when there's not a review done in the Home Country well we certainly need as much
4:55:01
help as we can get from the countries of origin uh these people when I say origin not just where they come from originally
4:55:07
but countries they've come through and the biometric enroll piece uh is of course an important one we have
4:55:13
situations where even if are we doing a thorough enough job of reviewing them
4:55:18
their actions and their lives in their home countries before they came here well I mean we need more help uh
4:55:26
from our foreign Partners uh there's no question about that uh and I think that's an important part of about our
4:55:31
domestic Partners like the CIA and others that are supposed to protect us so uh there's been a lot of discussion
4:55:38
uh of course over the last several years about the uh the pivot to what it's
4:55:44
called the hard targets right the understandable Focus which I support uh of of focusing on the threat posed by
4:55:51
China and Russia and Iran uh but with that comes if you look at for example
4:55:57
the withdrawal from Afghanistan you we start to lose sources of information
4:56:03
about foreign terrorist threats from overseas and that is that is a concern to me yeah my time's running out um has
4:56:09
vice president Harris met with you in regards to the Border well I've been in meetings uh
4:56:16
with that that have included the vice president uh that have in different ways touched on board has she specifically
4:56:22
asked you for a meeting in regards to um the threat that is at the border you
4:56:28
know
I'm not going to get into sort of specific meetings but I can tell you
that I've been in meetings that have included among other people the
vice
4:56:34
president that touch on border security issues did she ask you questions about what you thought needed needed to be
4:56:40
done in regards to reducing this threat to the American people you know I I really can't get into specific
4:56:48
conversations is support for president Trump a security concern within the FBI
4:56:53
I'm sorry I couldn't hear it is support for president Trump a security concern amongst your employees no is objection
4:57:01
to the covid-19 vaccine a security threat not from my
4:57:07
perspective um who improved the what is term the Trump questionnaire within the
4:57:12
FBI that was done by siis Dena Perkins Jeffrey ventry were behind
4:57:18
it who was responsible for that and did you know that there was a trump questionnaire out there so the document
4:57:26
you're asking about uh is an interview outline that we only recently learned
4:57:31
about and that my view is completely inappropriate I asked my team to get to the bottom of what happened and to
4:57:37
ensure that doesn't happen again and I've learned that it's not an FBI form that its use
4:57:44
was isolated that it was created not by an FBI employee but by an outside contractor and that individual is no
4:57:50
longer affiliated with the FBI but we are sending what we have found to the
4:57:56
office of Inspector General to and we'll cooperate of course with anything they Mr chairman I'll just close with this um
4:58:02
we keep hearing about these isolated examples whether it's Richmond Catholics this
4:58:07
instance when is it isn't it a pattern I yield back gem you
4:58:14
back Mr CA thank you Mr chairman and uh director Ray welcome again to this
4:58:20
committee and I want to thank you and your agents for good job you're doing to protect Americans
4:58:26
um earlier this week I was part of the group that went out to visit Butler
4:58:31
Pennsylvania Homeland Security members um I agreee with my colleagues
4:58:37
that have said violence has no part in our democracy and I trust you will investigate the
4:58:43
events surrounding July 13th early I'm going to ask you a question um
4:58:50
hope you keep it in mind as your investigation proceeds which is who's in
4:58:56
charge who's in charge at a campaign rally setting it up secret service or a
4:59:03
campaign and I asked this question because when I was there had a couple of
4:59:09
long enforcement individuals alluding to that question as well they gave me an example they said
4:59:18
um if a secret service says you need to set up a line of dump trucks behind the
4:59:25
stage to serve to protect the candidate and the campaign says that's
4:59:31
bad Optics who ends up winning the debate so
4:59:37
my question is who's in charge and as you investigate this crime
4:59:42
scene hope you ask the locally elected officials I spoke to a County
4:59:49
Supervisor local police and Sheriff they all had information they wanted us to
4:59:55
know to relay we just didn't have the opportunity to sit down and talk to them
5:00:02
um there was a lot of concern that they weren't given enough time to prepare for this rally they thought they were things
5:00:10
could have been done better and ultimately what I keep thinking what I keep coming back to is question who is
5:00:18
in charge at these rallies I think it's an important one because we have an
5:00:23
election right around the corner Pennsylvania Butler these areas
5:00:29
Battleground states around the country will continue to be areas where our candidates both sides will show up and
5:00:37
the threats will continue to be there so I hope director a that you'll keep that
5:00:43
statement in mind as you continue to investigate this crime scene well I I appreciate the question
5:00:50
uh I will tell you that we've conducted well over 400 interviews but we have many more still to conduct uh and as is
5:00:57
Not
Unusual an investigation I'm sure there will be situations where we
have to go back to people we've already interviewed with follow-up
5:01:04
questions um and our interviews cover a wide range of people I do think it's important to make sure uh that the
5:01:11
committee and and the American people understand uh the scope of our investigation versus the scope of others
5:01:17
our investigation is focused on the shooter and his attack uh there is of
5:01:23
course uh and I understand completely why uh two separate there are two
5:01:28
separate reviews one by the DHS Inspector General and the other by this
5:01:33
outside independent panel that's been announced that are focused on the security posture
5:01:39
the adequacy of the security posture at the rally Secret Service decision making and actions and things like that and so
5:01:46
I certainly understand why there are all those questions um but those are those are in scope of those two other reviews
5:01:53
and of course whatever you know Congress uh chooses to do our investigation
5:01:58
though because of our interviews of people who are on the scene will relate to that in some ways and we're going to
5:02:04
share whatever we learn that's relevant with those other reviews director in my last minute that I have I'm going to
5:02:10
flip quickly to your good job resources earlier this year in the Appropriations
5:02:16
Committee you testified that you were for 2024 your budget was 500 million below
5:02:24
what you needed to sustain your 2023 efforts few minutes ago you talked about
5:02:31
foreign terrorists the last few weeks I know information has emerged that
5:02:36
information came from fisa information that was able to be collected overseas
5:02:44
on these possible terrorist threats what we have here today is a domestic
5:02:50
terrorist what looks to be a lone wolf your statements there's nothing
5:02:57
really there that would have tipped anybody off to this
5:03:02
individual is that what I'm hearing from you well I I don't know that i' go quite that far because we're still
5:03:08
investigating uh a lot related to the shooter it does appear so far that we're seeing Less in his my six seconds I
5:03:15
would just say I would ask that you let us know what resources you need to
5:03:21
protect the American public and our candidates in our democratic system I I would I appreciate the question I would
5:03:27
just say this we are in as I've said consistently today and for quite some time now we are in elevated threat
5:03:33
environment covering a wide range of threats and the FBI is Central to protecting American people from those
5:03:40
threats and state and local law enforcement who depend on us every day
5:03:47
uh rely on us for all sorts of services databases forensic support training I
5:03:53
could go on and on and on and a lot of those departments unlike the FBI have had a hard time recruiting and so this
5:04:00
is not a time to pull back on our funding because we're going to leave our brothers and sisters in state local law
5:04:06
enforcement twisting in the wind and and then then by extension the American people were all collectively sworn to
5:04:13
protect thank you and Mr chair I yield jman yields back gentleman from Texas recognized thank you chairman thank you
5:04:18
director Ray for being here um when did you last speak with President
5:04:25
Biden I don't have the exact date but it's been certainly since the uh you
5:04:30
know
since the shooting so you have spoken to the president since the
assassination attempt on President Trump's life yes sir and what was the
5:04:37
mental state of the president we had a perfectly professional
5:04:42
conversation um and are you uh do you have any scheduled briefings of the president uh
5:04:49
upcoming uh not at the moment specifically scheduled no um in 2016 and
5:04:55
2015 top FBI officials uh infamously texted about quote their insurance policy to make sure Trump was never
5:05:00
elected or inaugurated as president have any FBI agents texted emailed or expressed disappointment that Trump
5:05:06
survived the assassination assassination attempt or otherwise editorialized about the assassination
5:05:11
attempt uh I don't know about any agents uh there have been uh at least two
5:05:16
instances I think or one instance of an individual uh who posted something uh
5:05:23
that I consider outrageous and totally inappropriate um and uh unacceptable and
5:05:30
that individual has been referred to our Inspection Division which is the arm our
5:05:35
sort of internal affairs investigatory arm that that does the disciplinary okay will you report back to this committee
5:05:41
any other incidents I'll do my best to to share information with the committee uh you testified early that the FBI
5:05:46
maintains high standards irrespective of of so-called diversity efforts um is it true that in December of 2016 former
5:05:53
director Comey lowered the passing standards for phase one uh allowing an influx of previously unqualified
5:05:59
applicants to continue in the hiring process who normally would have been stopped back in December of 2016 yeah I
5:06:05
can't I can't speak to director comey's um but we the I can tell you that that
5:06:11
at least since I've been director changes that we have made to uh we're standing on a specific question we're
5:06:16
standards change phase one this specific part of the process were they changed in 2016 well I don't recall if they were
5:06:22
changed in 2016 obviously I started as your question presupposes after that what I can tell you is since that time
5:06:29
we have made changes to various phases of the process but none of them this is important none of them lowered the
5:06:35
standards in fact if anything they actually increased are you are you familiar with reporting that we have and
5:06:41
we've
asked questions to you about this I'm not sure the result of the
questions that have more to more quote easily accommodate a larger pool
of available
5:06:47
applicants
FBI special agent hiring standards have been relaxed and requirements
measurably lowered this according to a group of former agents
5:06:54
who have testified about this and written a report and submitted it to Congress in addition specifically uh
5:07:00
minority uh people with 20-year careers one in particular a minority served for more than 20 years uh wrote in this
5:07:06
report and submitted to Congress saying that these standards were in fact lowered and that in fact if you were
5:07:12
hiring you were moved off of hiring if you put quality above these kinds of Dei
5:07:17
requirements do you reject this report and do you have comments on this report
5:07:22
I haven't read aware the I'm aware of the report I know that I've read every detail of it but I can tell you that the
5:07:28
claim that we have lowered our standards to be less selective and less competitive is not accurate so so do you
5:07:35
believe these former agents are lying to Congress when they submit a report to Congress STI and suggesting otherwise
5:07:40
are you saying that they are lying I'm saying they're mistaken okay but they're affirmatively on the record they're
5:07:46
telling
us and submitting a report to Congress saying that those facts are
directly in contradicting what you're testifying here today so I just
want to
5:07:52
be clear so we know we're saying that they are submitting uh evidence to our record to the contrary that you say is
5:07:59
untruthful I I encounter all the time when I when I travel around the country and have conversations with our agents
5:08:06
and I one of the things I try to do is have meetings with some of the longer serving agents without executive man my
5:08:13
only question and my point here's the implication is untruthful so I I need move on I got one minute left are you
5:08:19
familiar with the case of Paul at harlo she's a 75-year-old elderly woman from Massachusetts with a debilitating
5:08:24
medical condition um she was prosecuted for violating the face act and sentenced to two years in prison she has to go to
5:08:30
Texas in two weeks she was praying at an abortion clinic in Washington DC the FBI
5:08:36
interrogated investigated her do you think it is appropriate for 75-year-old woman who is praying at a clinic in DC
5:08:42
to be put in prison for 2 years for that activity just simple question do you think that's appropriate I'm not
5:08:47
familiar with the specific case you're not familiar with that case it's been significantly in the headlines but so
5:08:53
but
you don't know how to comment on that case that it's appropriate for a
75y old woman to be put in prison for 2 years for praying at a clinic
again I'm
5:08:58
not
going since I'm not familiar with the case I don't want to start
weighing in because I don't know all the facts but what I can tell you
is that when it
5:09:04
comes to face act enforcement and abortion related violent extremism I
5:09:09
think one of the things that gets lost and I appreciate the opportunity to clarify it is that really since the do's
5:09:16
decision actually more of our abortion related violent extremism investigations have focused on violence
5:09:23
against pro-life facilities as opposed to the other way around and we've had a number of investigates we're using phack
5:09:29
resources and our jttfs we're still waiting on responses on letters that we've sent uh indicating the data to the
5:09:35
contrary there's been significant amount of efforts and targeting of people who are life or you go to clinics and that
5:09:40
they've been prosecuted like this case a 75y old woman who is now going to jail in Texas for 2 years because she was
5:09:47
praying at a clinic in Washington DC and we've submitted uh questions on that and I'd appreciate a response on it you back
5:09:55
gentlemen yield back G lady from Pennsylvania is recognized thank you so much and thank you director Ray for
5:10:00
being here and for the work uh that your team does as well as for sharing the information that you've been able to
5:10:06
today um you just got a couple questions about about um that seemed to imply that
5:10:12
there was some problem with um the FBI's diversity efforts and certainly the
5:10:17
1950s version of the FBI was singularly um Caucasian male agents Etc
5:10:26
um is the FBI a better Force for having a diverse range of uh employees and
5:10:35
agents I think diversity makes us better but like everything else it has to be done the right way I think we can have a
5:10:42
more diverse Workforce and do it without lowering our standards and that's in my view what we've done and and you haven't
5:10:49
lowered standards at the FBI we have not I repeatedly come across people who are
5:10:54
confused about different parts of that and I appreciate the opportunity to set that straight thank you yeah I think
5:10:59
we're all concerned here as we've seen the roll out of this project 2025 that
5:11:05
purports to try to eliminate any reference to um diversity efforts across
5:11:10
the entire federal government so it is sort of a top- of Mind concern as it's uh threatening to become reality so what
5:11:17
I did want to talk about today is something some of my colleagues have mentioned which is the normalization of
5:11:23
threats and violence against public servants at all levels whether it's election workers or school officials
5:11:29
elected officials in their families judges federal law enforcement agents and others to be clear um I think it's
5:11:38
very clear that the the majority of Americans wholeheartedly condemn any sort of political violence and
5:11:43
understand that it's not legitimate uh discourse and that has no place in our our Civic life but words do matter and
5:11:51
they have consequences particularly when uttered by people in positions of leadership so that's why I I remain very
5:11:57
concerned by the willingness of some members of Congress to repeat disinformation and conspiracy theories
5:12:03
that undermine trust in our public institutions which serve all Americans and when elected off Embrace overheated
5:12:10
or fact-free rhetoric it becomes dangerous um I have been heartened as
5:12:15
many national leaders have unequivocally condemned calls to violence and I would urge all members of this body uh to do
5:12:22
so and continue to do so regardless of the party affiliation of the perpetrators or the targets of such
5:12:28
threats um you and our other National Security officials have repeatedly warned us that foreign actors are
5:12:35
actively working to spread disinformation to influence our ctions and discredit our public institutions
5:12:42
and we shouldn't be aiding and abetting them um so to live in a country that we aspire
5:12:50
to where our most valued Democratic processes like free and fair elections can be carried out unimpeded and people
5:12:56
can run for office serve their communities and exercise their right to vote without fear of violence um we've
5:13:03
had some concerns about violence around our elections in 2020 the endorsement and promulgation of falsehood
5:13:09
about the election result by the former president and and his campaign led to threats and attacks against election
5:13:16
officials and pole workers in Pennsylvania and those falsehoods also
5:13:21
wasted millions of taxpayer dollars on frivolous lawsuits and extraordinary
5:13:27
security costs so as we're again approaching November we want to ensure that those who Implement and defend our
5:13:33
elections our neighbors and our nonpartisan civil servants can do that important work free from conspiracy
5:13:41
theories and threats so we know our local law enforcement across
5:13:46
Pennsylvania are preparing for some disruption and threats um because while
5:13:52
Pennsylvania may be a Battleground state in the upcoming election that battle should obviously be a war of words over
5:13:58
policy and the vision we're charting for our country's future not an actual Civil
5:14:04
War so how is the FBI working with state and local law enforcement to prevent and
5:14:09
respond to election related violence particularly against election
5:14:16
workers so in a variety of ways we're partnering with state and local law enforcement obviously the uh physical
5:14:23
security in the first instance uh in most of the respects you're talking about is in the is in the ordinary
5:14:29
course the responsibility of state and local law enforcement but uh we play an important role in a number of ways so we
5:14:36
share you know threat bulletins information like that about things to be on the lookout for things we're seeing
5:14:42
uh if we ever have specific threat information then we work to get it to the right people we have election crime
5:14:48
coordinators which we've had for decades uh in all 56 field offices who have existing relationship with not just
5:14:56
State local law enforcement but election officials uh especially focus on on security and threat related uh issues uh
5:15:04
and then of course we're participating in the election threats task force
5:15:09
uh that doj set up which is focused on threats of violence or actual violence
5:15:15
against election workers specifically and we've had a number of arrests and and even some convictions already on
5:15:21
that okay thank you for your input I yield back gent yields back director uh
5:15:26
it's my intention to go approximately another half an hour um then we will we will break for the prime minister of
5:15:31
Israel's address to the Congress um on on the floor give you a chance for lunch and then then resume after that but
5:15:37
we'll
we'll keep pushing through for the next power we can General lady from
Indiana is recognized thank you Mr chairman uh thank you director Ray uh
I
5:15:46
think you have a little bit better tone in conversation so I appreciate it you know and answer some questions so I
5:15:52
appreciate it hopefully you'll answer also in two letters that I sent you over a year ago one related to Durham report
5:15:58
and the other one related to Russian infiltrated asbu that collaborated with
5:16:04
FBI so hopefully we'll get his answers and hopefully we'll St do don't you think doing authorization would help us
5:16:11
to get better answers con should be probably working authorizing new agency don't you agree with that uh we work
5:16:17
very hard to try to get information to this committee and to other committees but authorizing spending probably would
5:16:22
be a good thing for us to do don't you agree oh I'm sorry authorizing what our spending not just doing appropriating
5:16:28
but actually doing authorization of spending through this committee yes okay thank you we might start doing that uh
5:16:34
but um we can talk about in a lot of uh my colleagues on other side you know AR-15 gets a lot of bad rap you know
5:16:42
like to bring it up this issue but really there are a lot of hunting rifles that probably maybe even more accurate
5:16:48
than a lot of ARs and don't you AG we have like Millions right don't you agree we have millions of rifles owned by low
5:16:54
biing Americans so do you you know do you think we should be taking them
5:17:00
millions of rifles from L biing Americans what do you think about that would that be something feasible and
5:17:06
really we should be doing that well again I I'm not going to be addressing anybody's specific legislative proposal
5:17:11
uh from our perspective from the FBI's perspective the concern is any dangerous
5:17:16
weapon in the hands in the wrong hands all weapons the wrong person but all weapons are dangerous right I'm sorry
5:17:23
all weapons are dangerous knives are dangerous you know explosive are there are a lot of weapons are by their very
5:17:28
we going to be confiscating you know hunting rifles and rifles for millions of Americans do you think it's even
5:17:34
feasible to do something like that from low Biden citizens it's not something I'm advocating okay well thank you I
5:17:41
appreciate that so we have to go back that was a catastrophic failure of security that was happen you know
5:17:47
recently was attempted assination don't you agree with that well I I think uh former director cheel has already uh
5:17:55
publicly acknowledged uh that it was I think her words were a significant operational failure yeah then we had you
5:18:01
know similar situation and different you know talking about bad Optics speaker Pelosi at that time didn't want to have
5:18:08
bad Ops on January 6 and we didn't have proper security here in January 6 that
5:18:13
was a catastrophic failure too we looking at that anyone conclusion was
5:18:19
made from that have we Mak any adjustments because
5:18:24
I not a lot of people you know got hurt now just being here it was a lot of
5:18:29
cases burning up Department of Justice and there were a lot of them were really just low abiding Americans that really
5:18:36
just upset with the government and they have a reason to do it so I think we need to think about it before we
5:18:42
prosecute or instead of actually you know looking how we can deal with real
5:18:47
criminals and how we can have a proper security when we have events with so
5:18:52
many people there so did you uh did you have confidential human sources I think
5:18:58
you never answered that question on January 6 in the capital did you have
5:19:03
some I'm sorry what's the what's conf confidential human sources did you have have them on January 6th in the capital
5:19:11
well again I I'm never going to be getting into when and where we have or have not or have not used confidential
5:19:18
human sources but are you will understand the record that you had you know you had no confidential human
5:19:25
sources that went into capital in January 6 as I've said consistently I'm not
5:19:31
going to get into where we have or have not used confidential human sources I can tell you that if you are asking if
5:19:37
the violence the capital on January 6 was part of some operation orchestrated
5:19:43
by FBI sources or agents the answer is no no I didn't ask that I asked so did
5:19:49
you investigate if you any confidential human sources did you do any investigation and looking at that so
5:19:55
you're not answering if you had any or not so if you had potentially did you do anything you needed to make sure to
5:20:01
investigate that none of your sources did anything wrong if they did wrong they they were prosecuted the same way
5:20:06
like you're trying to prosecute a lot of people people that really even Con in Supreme Court rule recently that some
5:20:13
some unconstitutional charges let me just add that there have
5:20:18
now been I think 180 individuals who've gone to trial in addition to the 850 who
5:20:24
who pled guilty right but I think the problem is you put this charges a lot of people would put guilty but let me say
5:20:30
just quickly because I only have 10 seconds really so I hope you will take seriously what you're doing you know
5:20:35
related to the border security is also a crisis is you know have your vice president was a leading on that has she
5:20:42
actually she initiated meetings with you to lead like weekly or monthly meeting where she actually get briefings from
5:20:48
you as a leading bordar that had that function have you had that have she
5:20:53
initiated any meetings on a regular basis with you again gent L time has expired the
5:20:59
gentleman can can respond right I I on this issue of confidential human sources
5:21:05
number one I will say there is an doj oig in uh review that's under underway
5:21:11
that I think addresses some of these kinds of topics uh I believe but I won't speak for the Inspector General uh
5:21:17
second as to this suggestion which I've heard uh all too many times that somehow
5:21:23
January 6 was orchestrated by FBI agents or human or sources uh I will note that
5:21:29
in addition to my prior comments that there have now been 850 is uh
5:21:34
individuals whove pled guilty and another 180 whove gone to trial they've all had access to defense Council
5:21:40
Discovery
all the things the Constitution and the rules provide them it's been in
front of something like 15 different judges I think dozens of
5:21:46
juries and not one has given Credence to this notion
5:21:51
and
in fact I don't think any of them have even really seriously tried to
raise it uh so it's not just my word for it look what's happening in the
cases
5:21:58
thank you uh the gentleman from Colorado is recognized for 5 minutes thank you
5:22:04
thank you Mr chairman thank you director Ray for being here for your testimony today for the work that you do each and
5:22:10
every day and that your Frontline agents across the country do each and every day to protect Americans to keep our country
5:22:16
safe also grateful for the work that you're doing in investigating uh the horrific events of July 13th uh and the
5:22:24
attempted assassination of former president Trump which everyone must and and has condemned uh I would first just
5:22:32
ask do you believe that the FBI has the adequate resources to ultimately ensure
5:22:39
uh that your agency gets to the bottom of it and fully investigates uh this terrible
5:22:45
crime well we are devoting uh massive amounts of resources to this specific
5:22:51
investigation um we have easily several 100 uh FBI agents analysts and
5:22:57
professional staff uh working on it it is involves over half of the FBI's 56
5:23:04
field offices almost every headquarters division we even have uh some of our
5:23:10
overseas offices working on you might say well why is that well because some of the companies uh that uh involve
5:23:17
accounts or purchases or Communications or what have you that the shooter used are foreign companies so we have to get
5:23:24
uh evidence from overseas from those companies uh I've talked about our lab a little bit earlier today we've got our
5:23:32
office of Technology division working on the digital devices we have our behavioral analysis unit our ba working
5:23:39
on helping us build out a profile of the shooter I could go on and on and on so it's all hands- on deck on this case as
5:23:44
I think is appropriate now when you ask about our resources uh I've been public about the
5:23:50
fact that the fiscal year 24 budget put us 500 million dollar below where we
5:23:55
needed to be to sustain current operations and the on FY
5:24:01
25 the current house mark would put us significantly further back behind that
5:24:07
and would result in significant risks across every program and our support to
5:24:12
State and local law enforcement uh we arrested something like 50 violent criminals per day every day last year
5:24:21
the current mark would mean more violent criminals on the street more neighborhoods at risk we have about a
5:24:27
1300% increase in our investigations related to China and it's targeting of
5:24:32
us and I can assure you China is not cutting its budget this would mean more threats from China we have something
5:24:39
like 300 to 400 investigations just into cartel leadership uh and about hardly a week
5:24:45
goes by when some FBI field office isn't seizing enough fenel to wipe out an entire State those that Mark that those
5:24:54
cuts means more fental on the street more people dying uh so the people who suffer the most are State local law
5:25:02
enforcement and the American people were sworn to protect and so look forward to working with Congress but we we really
5:25:08
need to be uh smart about what we're doing and I think that would be a step in the wrong direction given the threat
5:25:13
environment that we face and I couldn't agree with you more director Ray and of course we've talked about this uh during
5:25:18
previous uh hearings in which you've testified and to be clear that I think the budget that House Republicans have
5:25:24
proposed which is about a $325 million cut uh to the FBI would do precisely
5:25:30
what you've described and have dilus impacts uh for Public Safety across our country and uh you house Democrats are
5:25:36
certainly working to prevent those cuts from taking place you've talked at Great length about the events of July 13
5:25:44
there's justifiably a lot of public interest uh in the investigation which we understand is ongoing wonder if you
5:25:50
might if there's anything that you'd like to disclose or provide to the
5:25:55
committee
or to the public um that perhaps has not yet been gleaned during the
course of this hearing and just give you an opportunity because there's a
lot
5:26:01
of folks related to the investigation yeah one thing I can give an update on
5:26:07
um uh which is pretty fresh here uh we had some conversations with some of the members uh about the access to the the
5:26:14
roof and the ladder and so forth uh and our evidence response teams uh and their
5:26:20
forensic collection uh We've now believe that the subject climbed onto the roof
5:26:26
using some mechanical equipment on the ground and vertical piping on the side
5:26:32
of the AGR building uh in other words we do not believe he used a ladder to get
5:26:39
up there uh one question if the chairman might indulge me with just a few e extra
5:26:44
seconds there's an article recently uh regarding several former Trump Administration National Security
5:26:50
officials who had received a duty to warn briefing from the FBI regarding the
5:26:56
Potential Threat from Iran and I think there is this article made clear deep
5:27:02
concern these individuals have justifiably so about the Threat Level and particularly given the of the last
5:27:08
several months and the need for there to be an increased security posture and
5:27:14
security Personnel for former officials who may very well still be at risk and I
5:27:20
don't know if you're familiar with that article I'm try not to use names here but I think uh would perhaps follow up
5:27:26
with your agency and with the Department of Justice more broadly to ensure that any individuals who are potentially
5:27:32
facing a threat from Iran or another hostile actor foreign Nation have the resources they need have uh the the
5:27:39
security available to them so again without reference to any specific individual um I want to be very clear
5:27:46
about this because I've I've tried to be vocal on this but it sometimes doesn't um get noticed as much which is that in
5:27:54
my view the Iranian government has been extremely aggressive and Brazen uh we have seen in the last few
5:28:02
years an attempt I'm speaking just from public information now an attempt to
5:28:08
assassinate a former US National Security adviser on us soil we have seen
5:28:13
an attempt first to kidnap and then to try to murder an American dissonant
5:28:20
jjournal who's a Critic of the Iranian regime right smack in the middle in New York
5:28:26
City we have seen uh a Cyber attack against a Children's Hospital in New
5:28:33
England that ties back to Iran we have seen uh as I've testified before as
5:28:38
director rackliffe and I announced an effort by the Iranians to Target the 2020 presidential election uh and that's
5:28:46
all before you even get to the fact that the Iranian government is the leading State sponsor of terrorism so if that's
5:28:52
not enough to convince people that Iran is a threat I don't know what is but director was there a distinction between
5:28:58
what the gentleman from Colorado raised and what you just said this General concern in these these specific uh
5:29:04
instance you talk about and a direct specific threat on President Trump
5:29:09
that's distinct from what you've been describing as this General concern with Iran well again I I can't get into
5:29:15
specific pieces of class and if so when if it was a distinct threat on President Trump when did that when did that take
5:29:22
place yeah I I all I can tell you uh certainly in this kind of setting is
5:29:28
um targeting of us officials for the uh
5:29:34
solomani strike is something that is is a reality that the Iranian government
5:29:40
has at times called for very publicly uh and there whenever there is reporting
5:29:46
let me try to answer your question this way Whenever there is reporting uh about any of those
5:29:51
protectees uh we share the information in a variety of ways working with the intelligence Community working with
5:29:58
whoever is the protective service with responsibility for that individual and we do it in a timely way using the the
5:30:04
duty to warant process that was just referred to uh and to my knowledge everything along those lines uh that's
5:30:12
relevant was shared in a timely way with the relevant people thank you gentleman from Wisconsin is recognized director R
5:30:19
thanks for being here um where where were you when you heard that President Trump was shot and then what were like
5:30:25
your immediate actions response to that as
5:30:31
director I was uh about to have dinner with family um and was horrified and
5:30:41
angry I I'm just thinking the the reason I asked the question is because I'm thinking I'm still trying to figure out
5:30:47
kind of the lanes what the FBI would respond to and what the secret
5:30:52
service has the responsibility to respond to can you just kind of cover that again sure so the FBI uh is not
5:31:00
responsible for it's never really been part of our mandate or mission for the physical security of venues of specific
5:31:08
protectees or anything like that that's if it's a if it's somebody within sacred Services scope that's their mandate and
5:31:14
Mission uh we are a law enforcement and intelligence agency and so if you think
5:31:20
about it this way we're the Federal Bureau of Investigation we're not the Federal Bureau of security you might say
5:31:25
well what's the difference well there is a difference uh we investigate crimes we investigate threats to National Security
5:31:32
but we don't questions about security posture the adequacy of uh resources and
5:31:38
assets that were deployed to protect a specific individual whether there's enough security and certainly the
5:31:44
Staffing of that security is not something the FBI uh again we're 116 years old has
5:31:51
historically done so at this point um have you been able to go through the shooter home and and kind of document
5:32:01
kind of what what you found as far as evidence goes so we we have been able to
5:32:06
search the shooters home so again just sort of tying your first question to your to your second question now you
5:32:11
know our role is to conduct an investigation of the shooter and the attack and so we're going to conduct a
5:32:17
painstaking intense investigation of that we have among other scenes that we've processed using evidence response
5:32:24
teams uh in addition to the rally scene itself of course we have been through the individuals the shooters home uh his
5:32:32
bedroom other parts of the house Etc have you been able to establish that he did go to a range
5:32:38
and either zero that weapon in or you know at least target shoot that weapon
5:32:44
prior to the assassination attempt so uh we do uh assess that he went to a
5:32:52
shooting range the day not the only time he went to a shooting range he was a fairly um Avid might be a little strong
5:32:59
but a fairly Avid uh you know shooting hobbyist uh and so he went to you know
5:33:04
belonged to different sort of clubs and and went to certain range and that kind of thing we do uh believe based on what
5:33:10
we've seen so far that he went to a shooting range uh the day before and then he shot uh uh an AR sty AR style
5:33:20
rifle at that range the day before I I'm not sure we know for sure that it's this the weapon that he used but I think we
5:33:26
assess that it probably is have you been able to uh interview his parents uh yes we have and was there
5:33:33
anything that was gained from that interview that would lead you to believe that they certainly were aware of what
5:33:40
was going on uh I would uh I guess I want to be careful talking about specific people's
5:33:45
interviews but I would say that his parents were Cooperative with us and as I've said before and hopefully this gets
5:33:51
at your question we have not identified any accomplice
5:33:57
co-conspirators or anything along those lines um so it's the FBI's position
5:34:03
right now that he still acted independently again we're still I know
5:34:08
it seems like a lifetime since July 13th but we're still early stages but we have not seen anything so far that would
5:34:15
suggest to us that he acted with others how does the FBI view not just a trump
5:34:21
rally but political rallies versus other types of events uh you know from a
5:34:28
security perspective uh compared to a college football game or any any Mass
5:34:34
you know large crowd type Gathering cuz I can't I think the one of the things that's most difficult to really um to
5:34:42
swallow at this point is that the the idea that these Trump rallies have been happening for years and that there there
5:34:49
could be such a LAX approach to the physical security of those Fairgrounds
5:34:56
that day and I'm wondering you know where does this fall and then on top of
5:35:01
that that there were other presidential candidates out there reiterate the caveat that I've included before because
5:35:07
because in this instance in particular we have a lot of legal process out for
5:35:12
additional uh accounts and things like that um that associated with so we're
5:35:18
hoping to learn more and we're still exploiting a number of the digital devices right um I think it's fair to
5:35:25
say that we do not yet have a clear picture of his motive and I think it's
5:35:31
important for me to explain because I understand of course why everybody wants to know the answers to those
5:35:36
questions often in an investigation from interviewing uh people that the subject
5:35:42
was in close contact with looking at the individuals subject social media accounts messages often things physical
5:35:51
evidence in the person's residence you might see a Manifesto things like that we're not seeing that yet um but we are
5:35:58
digging in hard because this is one of the central questions for us what I can say is that uh the shooter appears to
5:36:06
have uh done a lot of searches of public figures in general but so far we're
5:36:12
seeing kind of news articles and things like that and so the images that have been reported about really what we're
5:36:18
talking about there are when you when you do a news search of an article see the image appears in the cach as opposed
5:36:25
to like a search for that specific individual uh but again I really want to be clear that that's a place that we're
5:36:33
doing a lot of work right now uh and so more to come on that well I thank you for that clarification we're interested
5:36:39
also in um the role of access to uh when it comes to this terrible crime the
5:36:46
shooter used a semi-automatic rifle really a weapon of war that sadly has
5:36:52
also been used in mass shootings around the country including in my own District
5:36:58
it seems to me that the assault weapons ban that was once in place has to be a part of the national answer to curbing
5:37:05
the epidemic of gun vir violence in America I wonder uh if you could with
5:37:10
your help director Ray understand a few aspects of the investigation it's my
5:37:16
understanding that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco firearms and explosives ATF was
5:37:21
quickly able to trace the gun the gun uh the guns purchasing records from an
5:37:27
outof business gun store records that the government is re re acquired to
5:37:32
correct some of my colleagues on the other side of the a have suggested that collection should stop there have been
5:37:39
efforts to digitize it which have been resisted can you tell us about how the
5:37:44
the origin of this gun purchase was discovered and uh the technology
5:37:52
used what I well I guess what I can say is um the uh we located a number of
5:37:59
firearms uh associated with the shooter and his family uh I think it was a total
5:38:05
of I think 14 in the house um the uh weapon that he used uh for the
5:38:13
attempted assassination uh was an AR style rifle uh that was purchased legally uh that he
5:38:22
um is my understanding uh acquired I think bought actually from his father
5:38:27
who was the one who originally bought it uh again legally thank you Mr chairman
5:38:33
my time has expired so I yield back gent lady yields back gentlemen from California's recog nice thank you uh
5:38:39
director I'll try to ask questions that that are answerable too I think that's been done pretty well on both sides uh
5:38:47
you do the advanced threat assessment and deliver that information as to the general threat and
5:38:53
then specifics as to protected people to the Secret Service is that correct well sort of uh the Secret
5:39:00
Service does a threat assessment but they're doing that based on intelligence that they receive from a number of
5:39:06
sources including of course the FBI so we share whenever we have thread
5:39:12
information related to a particular individual or protecte then we share it with the secret service at a number of
5:39:18
levels so you're a participant But ultimately the responsibility for threat assessment as to these individuals
5:39:24
belongs to the Secret Service well again the threat assessment for the individual belongs to the secret service but we are
5:39:30
an important part of that because we share threat information if we have any uh they get threat information from a
5:39:36
variety of sources and and you get them from that same variety of sources they've got no
5:39:41
sources that are ex excluded from the FBI do they well not I don't know I'm not aware
5:39:47
of any that are excluded from the FBI but they may receive information that comes directly to them that didn't come
5:39:52
to us sure okay uh director do you believe that former president Trump was
5:39:58
a a high-risk threat under your assessment I I believe that former
5:40:04
president Trump uh can really frankly like any president or former president
5:40:10
is a very high profile figure and attracts a lot of unfortunately the kind of it's fair to say not on a scale of
5:40:19
one to a million with little nuances but on a scale of 1 to 10 president Trump's
5:40:24
risk was very similar to a current president very similar to because he was
5:40:29
the presumptive nominee and uh leading in the polls and so on that that uh that
5:40:34
he was a high risk by any standard is that correct certainly there's a reason why he has so
5:40:40
much protection around him okay uh Robert F Kennedy Jr the son of
5:40:45
assassinated Senator and the nephew of an assassinated President would you say he was also as a presidential candidate
5:40:52
at significant risk again I think any presidential
5:40:58
candidate that raises some level of risk it might vary from canidate no but it's clearly a risk okay um so uh
5:41:07
in a nutshell the day before this attack
5:41:12
president Trump was documented not to have gotten on multiple occasions from
5:41:18
the Secret Service what they asked for the day after it looks like they're getting more the day before RFK had been
5:41:25
denied by the president multiple times Secret Service protection the day after
5:41:31
he now has it so now my question is is the actions of a 20year old with a
5:41:39
a lone gunman on a roof sufficient to change the risk assessment in your mind for president Trump and RFK or are we
5:41:47
just realizing the threat that was always there and being more appropriate in
5:41:53
matching it and and I know that's a little vague but but you've been at this for a long time hindsight is 2020 now
5:42:01
that we have hindsight is it fair to say that giving Robert F Kennedy Jr security
5:42:07
upping the security including drones overhead support for the president former president these are all things
5:42:13
that in hindsight should have been done the day before well let me try to answer your question this way of course as I said
5:42:20
you know the assessments of the level of security to be provided to individual protectors no no I understand it's a
5:42:27
secret service decision but what I would say to you uh is that and I've been saying for quite some time uh including
5:42:33
in front of Committees of this Congress that we are in an elevated threat environment and we have been for some
5:42:38
time uh and that comes from a variety of quarters uh it is a it is quite frankly
5:42:44
a dangerous time to be a prominent public official in in regards to that the other side has spent a lot of
5:42:51
time talking about what people on the right have said but there was an
5:42:56
attempted assassination on the Supreme Court Justice we have had the highest ranking Senator on the other side of
5:43:03
this body uh saying that there were were actions that they were accountable we have had multiple members of Congress in
5:43:11
both the house and the Senate uh berating the the character of uh members
5:43:18
of the Supreme Court as a result of their uh uh their their decisions made
5:43:25
both you know sometimes 63 sometimes unanimous whatever are those comments not any one
5:43:33
of them but are those comments and the generation of that sort of oh this guy's
5:43:39
bad for democracy this this Supreme Court Justice is a threat to democracy is that the kind of thing that raises
5:43:45
the Threat Level and would you caution against that well I I do believe that uh we've
5:43:53
seen an increase in threats of violence which again that's the FBI's Lane not rhetoric no matter how Despicable or
5:43:59
heated it is but violence and threats of violence we have seen an uptake in threats towards judges among other Pro
5:44:06
public official including as you say a case that we helped investigate involving a threat to a sitting Supreme
5:44:12
Court Justice um an attempt an attempt yeah thank you right um and uh I think
5:44:20
it's a reflection of a broader phenomenon than we are seeing in this country uh where people again very
5:44:26
passionate I respect that very angry I respect that but there's a right way and
5:44:31
a wrong way to express yourself when you're angry and and violence and
5:44:36
threats of of violence just can't be it and that's where we fit in we it's not
5:44:42
my role as FBI director to call out you know particular people's rhetoric there's a place for that um but that's
5:44:49
that's not my role as FBI director but but when it turns to violence and threats of violence that is has to be
5:44:54
treated
as unacceptable and that's the way we look at it thank you Mr chairman I
yield back director when the FBI learned that Iran was threatening
5:45:00
president Trump's
5:45:05
life so I want to I want to be a little bit careful here not talk about specific classified information but um we have
5:45:14
been for quite some time uh and I'll stick with what's in the open record we
5:45:19
for some time and I in particular for some time have been calling out uh the efforts by the Iranian government to
5:45:27
attempt to retaliate for the uh the killing of solomani by going after uh
5:45:35
current or former prominent us officials and we've even had an indictment against it and I think
5:45:43
that we need to recognize the brazenness of the Iranian regime including right here in the United States and I expect
5:45:50
that we're going to see more of it and I expect there'll be more coming on that I'm not aware of any threat information
5:45:56
uh related to protes that wasn't you know passed in a timely way but I can't really get into specifics here it's it
5:46:03
it
it's minority's time here but I I just felt that was a question the
committee need to understand and it sounds like you've known that for a
long
5:46:09
time and that information was conveyed to the Secret Service any information related to
5:46:16
threats against uh the former president which again as we've sort of talked about is um happens all too often is
5:46:23
something
that we have a whole process that we routinely share with secret
service at a number of levels in a timely way and to my knowledge that
has
5:46:30
consistently been followed gentleman from Georgia is recognized thank you Mr chairman uh thank you for being here
5:46:36
Direct director Ray um director Ry the FBI is the independent law enforcement
5:46:45
agency under the Department of Justice is that correct yes and does the FBI director
5:46:54
currently uh report to anyone well uh you mean in a chain of
5:47:02
command uh reporting structure kind of thing yeah so um the FBI part of the justice department uh on the orc chart
5:47:10
you would see that the FBI director and this has been true for decades reports to the deputy attorney general who
5:47:16
reports to the attorney general obviously reports in a communication sense I I report to any number of people
5:47:24
as opposed to a micromanagement reporting system uh
5:47:30
correct and you would take issue would you not with
5:47:35
any proposal that would change or alter that chain of command and place you or
5:47:43
place a uh FBI director in the position of reporting directly to the president
5:47:49
would you not you would oppose that I I don't think that would be a wise
5:47:54
reporting structure um I think the structure that we've had for decades now
5:48:01
uh makes sense um I think there's a difference between Independence
5:48:07
uh in a sort of organizational structure perspective and Independence in terms of
5:48:12
the way you do the work obviously thebi FBI is part of the justice department well reporting directly to the president
5:48:18
would um uh eliminate uh your Independence would it not I don't think
5:48:24
it would help yeah and you're familiar with uh project 2025 are you not I mean
5:48:31
I've seen you know news reports about it I'm not familiar with it you aware that it
5:48:37
is a game plan for president Trump's first 120 days in office correct I I'm
5:48:46
really not familiar with the details I I've seen reporting about it is it is and uh what he proposes to do is to
5:48:53
force the FBI director to appoint uh to uh report directly to him that's what he
5:49:00
wants to do within the first 120 days he also wants to eliminate the uh position
5:49:06
of FBI general counsel that is also set forth in Project 2025 how would you
5:49:12
recommend that I think the FBI's office of General Council serves an incredibly important role including uh in terms of
5:49:21
advising our Workforce we have 38,000 people the idea of having uh an
5:49:26
organization like ours an independent law enforcement agency like ours that doesn't have its own general council's
5:49:32
office doesn't make sense to me well it would seem like any proposal that would
5:49:39
force the director to report the to the president and then uh there would be no
5:49:46
legal counsel for the uh director of the FBI that that that uh seems like it's an
5:49:53
attempt to neuter the FBI and and render it uh uh accountable only to the
5:50:01
president isn't that correct well let me put it this way I I recognize
5:50:07
that the FBI director this FBI director and FB FBI director before me serves at
5:50:12
the pleasure of the president uh and that's part of our system um I was
5:50:18
appointed by President Trump um I respect that that I think that's a part of our structure but Independence in
5:50:25
terms of how we do our work is what matters to me and we need to be able to do our work in a way that is free from
5:50:31
political interf well you wouldn't be able to do that by reporting everything you do to the president and getting his
5:50:37
authority and approval before you take action correct I don't think that would
5:50:43
be a wise approach and then there's even a proposal to replace many of those
5:50:50
38,000 uh dedicated uh civil servants who work for the FBI replaced them with
5:50:57
a Maga group that has pledged its allegiance to
5:51:04
Donald Trump what danger would that bring to the FBI if that were to happen
5:51:09
well again I I haven't read or reviewed this thing that you're refering what I say is true but the FBI is made up of
5:51:17
the FBI is made up of 38,000 dedicated career law enforcement professionals it
5:51:22
has no political appointees of any kind unless you count me as a nom of for I
5:51:28
don't think that should change I think that is a bunch of Mag how we do our work being being the employees of the
5:51:35
FBI we're coming up 116 years of the FBI and that's the way it has been for 116
5:51:40
years crazy to take 38,000 magga loyalist and put them at
5:51:46
the FBI that's frightening that's what project 2025 proposes and I'm glad to
5:51:52
know that you are um not with uh that program and with that I you back
5:51:58
gentlemen you back gentlemen from Florida is recognized was the shooter on the FBI's radar in any way prior to the
5:52:04
assassination attempt we did not have have any information uh about the shooter he was not in our Holdings um
5:52:11
before the shooting no communication in any chat rooms no CIS or confidential
5:52:17
human sources have any interaction with no we've run a a thorough search uh for the subject through all of our Holdings
5:52:23
and and he was not in them anywhere were there any FBI agents or informants present at the Trump rally in Butler not
5:52:31
to my knowledge okay uh and Mr Jordan was talking to you about Iran
5:52:37
were law enforcement resources diverted from the protection of President Trump
5:52:42
to John Bolton as a consequence of concern that Mr Bolton might have been the target of of Iranian uh malign
5:52:51
efforts uh that's really a secret service decision I don't I don't know the answer to that uh that's really
5:52:57
something they would know better what I can tell you is that um there are a
5:53:02
number of individuals you mentioned one who we've brought a case a specific criminal case for the
5:53:08
Iranians
targeting for assassination but how the are you going are you going to
get that answer to us whether or not resources were diverted from Trump
to
5:53:15
Bolton is that just going to be part of your review I think that's going to be part of the reviews by the inspector the
5:53:21
Inspector General Inspector General for DHS right of DHS and and the outside pan
5:53:27
I
think that's an important point because the Inspector General for DHS
has really fallen out of favor with the administration because he's been
5:53:32
pointing out all the problems on the border with my orcus and Biden and we're always was kind of worried that they're
5:53:37
about to fire him which would be a really bad idea now that this role that you've identified is is so critical be
5:53:43
be a bad idea to fire the IG for DHS during the pendency of this right Mr director I don't think that
5:53:51
would a good idea I'm I'm with you how often do you brief President
5:54:01
Biden and your role is I mean I I don't know that I could give you a number I've it like weekly monthly daily it's it's
5:54:08
not it's not at a regular Cadence there have been times when there have been months at a time when I haven't and then
5:54:14
there have been times when several days apart I have U it's always with other people uh the vice president is she
5:54:20
typically there uh often has been okay so so when did
5:54:26
you notice his decline interactions in my role uh all
5:54:33
my interactions with the current president have been completely professional right but
5:54:39
I his the cognitive decline I'm saying he treated you on professionally just up
5:54:46
as quickly as again I very often uh but what you're describing is not something that I've observed during my
5:54:51
interactions with him I mean we've we've had it observed so often that the ranking member and Mr Schiff on this
5:54:58
committee have said that he could no longer continue as a candidate and so since you're the FBI director I was just
5:55:04
sort of wondering like who's running in the country if something if something yeah
5:55:11
so if something bad happened you'd have to go brief President Biden about it right now God forbid and occasions I
5:55:19
have briefed the president and as I said those briefings have all been uneventful and unremarkable oh I I I could imagine
5:55:26
them being uneventful um the but but in in the work where the vice president's
5:55:31
also present like you say there's like more than half the time there's these briefings she's there too I don't know
5:55:37
if i' said more than half a Time certainly there have been times where she's been present there been other times where she
5:55:43
hasn't I take you at your word when you say this is the most complicated threat environment you've ever observed over a
5:55:49
long career in law enforcement and I'm just kind of wondering with this assassination attempt with the invasion
5:55:56
at our border with all the Hamas that have been LED in that you've talked about and briefed about like
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